Why didn't they pair up Chakotay and Janeway in the end?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Mr. Scott, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I thought there should have been a conversation between Chakotay and Janeway near the end of the series where he confesses his love for her and she gently implies that she returns his feelings but they can't act on it while they're in the Delta Quadrant.
    Then just show her take his hand when they see Earth. Subtle and classy.
     
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  2. Katinka

    Katinka Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yes, exactly, borgboy! I could even forgive the kiss with Seven then. He'd given up hope and is trying to move on with somebody else but then Kathryn and he have "the talk" and he realizes (well, he must have always known) that Seven isn't the right person for him and he still, after all, loves Kathryn and she still returns his feelings. (I can hardly imagine two people less suited for each other than the man who undertakes spirit walks and loves whiling away evenings over dinners with Andorran cider and the woman who finds that all inefficient and irrelevant and prefers the Astrometrics lab - just imagine who a cosy evening would look like for them. I can't really). A gentle gesture at the end: holding hands, an arm draped around her shoulder they looking at each other like they used to would have made a perfect and very happy ending.
     
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  3. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    I never understood why so many Trek fans had complained that Janeway and Chakotay never hooked up, yet remained silent about Picard and Dr. Crusher.
     
  4. Katinka

    Katinka Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Not sure but personally I couldn't care less about Picard and Crusher. I don't see chemistry there which is clearly there between J and C. P/C seems sort of boring, where is the passion? Where is the conflict necessary for a good love story? Is Picard even capable of passion? He seems so blasé.
    It helps that I find Chakotay a LOT hotter than Picard and Kathryn a lot more interesting than Dr. Crusher.
     
  5. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I am a Picard/Beverly fan too. Picard is very reserved but there are episodes that show his feelings for Beverly very well, especially the one where they were telepathically linked. The conflict that keeps them apart is Jack Crusher. Beverly still hasn't gotten over his death enough to move on to another serious relationship, and Picard's loyalty to Jack and lingering guilt over his death hold him back.
    I don't really feel the need to compare them though. Janeway and Chakotay have their own different relationship and it works on it's own merits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  6. Katinka

    Katinka Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Point well taken, Borgboy. Clearly I haven't watched enough TNG, I am such a sucker for Voyager!
     
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  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    There were a lot of TREK fans who did not feel the same as you do about Picard and Crusher. But I've mainly heard complaints about Janeway and Chakotay. Although it probably wasn't against the rules, it also wasn't a good idea for a commanding officer to have a romance with someone under his or her command. This is probably why Janeway and Chakotay never hooked up, or Picard and Crusher. In the case of Janeway and Chakotay, it could have worked if Chakotay had maintained command of his Maquis ship. It would have been a romance between two starship captains. Or . . . both of them could have become romantically involved after leaving Starfleet upon their return to the Alpha Quadrant. Otherwise, getting romantically involved would not have been a good idea.
     
  9. Katinka

    Katinka Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I never quite bought the argument about the Starfleet rules. Sure, it makes sense under normal circumstances like ship on a mission and then back home. People can reasonably be expected to contain themselves for weeks or months. Also if a romance should develop upon their return home they can get different assignments, etc.
    But here we are talking about 70 years. Sure everybody hoped to be home tomorrow but realistically that wasn't going to happen. Janeway and Chakotay even talked about Voyager becoming a generational ship in season 2 (I think). If that is a possibility/necessity the rules must be relaxed you can't expect people to pair off only with other people of the same rank or a completely different department. That would be the logical Vulcan thing to do, not the messy human thing. As a captain the first officer would be the least questionable choice, some crewman from engineering or good old Harry Kim - now that would be a problem.
    So they could have paired them off, showed how Janeway slowly relaxed her exacting standards, even for herself, allowed herself to be a bit more Kathryn and a little less captain. It seems like a lot of fans would have been happy with a tastefully done scene at the very end. Seeing that the promise they implicitly (maybe explicitly) made to each other to wait until they are home would be kept. Instead we get Mr. Spirit Walks paired off with Miss Efficiency in the universe's most unlikely pairing.
     
  10. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never had a problem with Chakotay having a brief encounter with Seven. I mean, what are they going to do? There aren't too many Men on the ship who are Alpha Male material and, almost from "Hello," Jeri Ryan became the new star of the show. And you can't have the star's character paired off with just anybody. Chakotay may have had some lonely nights on Voyager, but out of everyone, he had the fewest. Fewer even, than Tom! And that's for certain.
     
  11. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    I never said there was a Starfleet rule against an officer dating someone under his or her command. I said that although such romances were not against the rules, many thought it was not a wise idea to pursue.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TNG Lessons... Hmm? Jellico was Captain on the Enterprise for a week or two, I wonder if he found himself a shipboard girlfriend for the duration?

    Or I wonder if Daren slipped back on board as soon as Picard ####ed off?
     
  13. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be Frank & Ernest:
    Captain Edward Jellico is in the Autumn of his Life, with Winter's bitter chill well on its way ... By the time we catch up with him, he's kind of already accepted his decrepitude and that of the women his age. There's nothing for him, now, but orthopedic shoe-wearing grannies from which to select. Everything after 35 is just Bonus Years, anyway. And Jellico, himself, is at the perfect age for taking up BINGO. So, there's little left for him, but to complain, like the "seductiveness" of Deanna Troi's tame catsuits.
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's really only one "solution" to the supposed inappropriateness of Chakotay's being in a relationship with Janeway, as a line officer under her command:

    They should've been written as having been former lovers, in the distant past, when the World was as fresh and vibrant as they. As Old Flames, they couldn't exactly be faulted for rekindling Former Glory - especially, considering Voyager's unique situation. What's more, it would've given Seska more ammo and cause for hatred of Janeway, which would've proved interesting. Especially, if it were enough to tip Seska over the edge ...
     
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  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    McCoy was 140-something in TNG.

    I'm guessing that 24th century human life is extended by more than a hundred years compared to us, but youth is clearly not.

    A 60 year old still looks like a 60 year old, but they still got to deal with another 140 years of decline and replacement spare parts while they're waiting way too long to die.

    Humans can be 200 years old, but they are probably fragile as ####.
     
  16. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Die Young & Stay Pretty" still applies, in the 24th Century, apparently. You're absolutely right, of course. Humanity wants Medicine to find ways to expand and extend - not just life, but - Youth, itself! But without genetic manipulation all the way from the fertilised egg stage and over the course of a Lifespan, I don't see how that's going to be possible. Otherwise, just adding decades to The Ravages of Old Age doesn't seem to do more than delay the inevitable.

    Chakotay claiming Kathryn as his woman would've been inevitable, once Seska jumped ship. But Kate said, "... no." Which suited the production staff just fine, as they could blame whatever inconsistencies they wrote in for Janeway on the fact that she was pent up, being without a Man. What Bovine Excrement! Then, of course, it was too late after 7 took over, causing Kate to stress so bad that she aged, visibly. Especially noticeable were her bulldog jowls. So, there would've went Chakotay's interest in her, anyway. Kate should've just said "no" to the kissing onscreen, if that bothered her, and not "no" to their relationship. OH, WELL ...!!!
     
  17. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It makes sense that after so long of Janeway being the ship leader and insisting the relationship just be friends/colleagues that Chakotay would grow less romantically interested, think of it as impossible, also think of them as just friends/colleagues and become more interested in other women.
     
  18. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The question that nobody seems willing to axe ― much less, answer ― is:
    "Would VOY fans have been satisfied with what they actually got, onscreen, from a Chakotay/Janeway pairing?"

    IN THE BEGINNING, yes, they would be tickled P!NK that they got their wish. Kathryn in Chakotay's arms, talking of Love ... and making plans. Then, what? It's either going to have to sort of normalise, to where their relationship takes a backseat to their derring-do, OR ... some drama's going to have to shake things up, between them. I seriously doubt Chakotay would've ever been unfaithful to Kathryn. He's a 1-woman Man, at least the way I've always seen him.

    So, their relationship's probably either going to be threatened by work, or they're an imperfect fit, somehow. They love eachother, they want to make it work, but there are a lot of ups and downs involved. Personally, I wouldn't want to see that. My preference would be to just have their romance stay in the background and I believe that most fans would feel likewise. It's just understood that they're together, and we get to see, occasionally, both of them in bed, together, like when Kathryn can't sleep and she gets out of bed, with Chakotay sawing logs. She walks over to the window and ponders the Cosmic Consequences of their latest mission, and then looks over at her lover ... and smiles. Something like that would be more than sufficient, I should expect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  19. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Pairing up Janeway and Chakotay at the end, would have been surely sweet for a lot of JCers but it would have been seriously awkward too, as much as the Chakotay/Seven's pairing which came out of nowhere. Especially after to have spend the last 5 years as just loyal friends (and NOT "friends with benefits", right?!) :whistle:

    I mean, so much I recognize that Chakotay became a possible romantic interest in first season but,after Resolutions (s2x25), Hunters (s4x15) and finally Shattered (S7x11), it was definitively confirmed that he had become for Janeway, a close friend and confidant with whom she liked sharing relaxing time (in dinning & talking sometimes about pointless subjects together) at her quarters.
    Besides, I bet that she would have done the same thing with Tuvok and Seven if both hadn't been so stuck and lonely (let's be honest, those two have serious difficulties in going spontaneously towards the others & communicating ... except for the philosophic subjects, of course! :whistle:).
     
  20. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problems with all relationships mentioned in this thread is that those in charge were absolutely incapable of writing about relationships and creating a relationship that would look good on screen. It just didn't work for them.

    We had the Crusher/Picard relationship where they just couldn't write "B" after writing "A". We had Troi/Riker which was also messed but when they finally got their act together in "Insurrection".

    We had Janeway/Chakotay where they had two options but chosed a third which was to insult the fans and we had Paris/Torres which was OK for me but did seem more as something they came up with to show that both of them were still main characters.

    Add to that Deanna Troi's weird relationships with that slimy Devinion Ral and the even more slimy Ves Alkar and some of Riker's more spectacular affairs. Add to that Worf/Troi. Why? It was like "ah, in this episode we must have a relationship just because we must have a relationship" and then they couldn't handle it. It became stale and unrealistic.

    They couldn't even manage to write about a break-up which the Kes/Neelix example showed. And why they failed to get Wes Crusher and Robin Lefler together, I don't understand.

    What they were good at was to write decent adventures and build up a great background story for those adventures, like the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict, the Maquis and all that plus the early Borg episodes. I have to give them credit for that. I also think that they did a good thing with coming up with the Kazon scenario for Voyager. I mean, there have been similar things in history where an opressor has been overthrown and then the victors have started to fight another.