Why didn't they pair up Chakotay and Janeway in the end?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Mr. Scott, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Not sorry they didn't pair them up. Would have been too clichéd, in my view.

    Not that I think that pairing Chakotay with seven was a good idea at all. But at least I didn't see that one coming :)






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  2. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Commence, McWhiskers! No time like the present... ;) 7 is great and her arc is fantastic.


    As for JC I'm glad they didn't get together ; I agree it would have been a bit clichéd, though really I just never felt any chemistry between them. I like C7, but mainly because I like both characters - their relationship could have been handled a bit better. Putting the 2 sexiest (imo) characters on the show together was possibly even more clichéd than JC though.
    Mostly I lament no J7 I guess since TPTB maybe didn't have the cojones back in the age-old 90s. That probably would have gone against Mulgrews vision for the Janeway character, but I like social events that push the envelope and challenge a person's stance, so...
     
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  3. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    I didn't either. But for the limited screen time it got, I thought it worked.

    It's really a shame that other than Janeway's appearance in Nemesis (which was cool), TPTB never went back to the Voyager characters. Seeing how C7 (love that) turned out would have been fun.
     
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  4. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    I totally disagree about J/7. Janeway was in a position of authority over 7 more than any other crew member. She was basically 7's teacher, almost a surrogate mother, and putting them together would have been really creepy imo. I would have probably abandoned the series if they did that.

    Now, I could see B'Elanna and 7. Hot headed Klingon paired with emotionally detached Borg, both exploring what it means to be human and non human at the same time. That would have been very interesting. I could see B/7 driving a lot of story.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  5. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    I actually liked C/7 in Human Error. If they had worked with them from that point on I think I might have been ok with it. Their kiss was so tender and had chemistry but the part that sold me was at the piano. Pure gold when holo Chakotay was trying to teach her that playing the piano perfectly but with no feeling was wrong. Making mistakes was fine as long as your heart came through in the piece. Loved it.

    However Natural Law and then Endgame tossed it all into the fire. What a charred mess. Kind of sad really.
     
  6. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's cool about disagreeing... and I can totally understand the reason why. But I do like things that challenge the safety margin, so to speak. Most of my thought processes that are completely normal for me are also totally out of line with convention and traditional societal norms. That's just me... ;)
    I agree with you on B7 being kind of an interesting idea since they are almost polar opposites in personality type, but also share some vague similarities with regard to their emotional experiences/ baggage, etc.

    Also agree on C7 since I did like those two together anyway. If they had had something (even something subtle, not involving dialogue) occur between the two in Natural Law, then the debates that rage about that pairing might not even exist today. One time I actually made a small list of glances and one-liners between them over the course of some eps in seasons 5 and 6 that would have put the denigration to rest. BUT of course that didn't happen...
     
  7. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    I like to push stereotypical leanings as well but the whole mother/ daughter vibe and then making them romantically involved.... that's just too far for me. Heck, look at the flack Chakotay got for becoming romantic with Janeway's borg girl. Imagine Janeway crossing the floor. Ouch...

    In hindsight there was a lot of chances for C/7 to work. He even joined with her on a very personal level in Scorpion. It would not have taken much to play into that. Personally I think C/7 was more a middle finger to the J/C fans who just wouldn't go away. Sad really. Fans make a franchise and if you don't want to give them what they want, that's fine, but to deliberately throw them under the bus to prove a point...not so cool.
     
  8. Rachel Foster

    Rachel Foster Ensign Red Shirt

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    C/7 bad idea! It was to make Chakotay actually do something other than push buttons in his chair. It was rushed with no build up and came out of no where?

    J/7 belongs! It’s not creepy, however, it only belongs in fanfic. It also would never have worked on screen. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere Mulgrew doesn’t like j/7 fanfic anyway? (Correct me if I’m wrong) so I’m sure she wouldn’t have agreed to do it anyway!

    As much as I would have loved to see Janeway find love, love isn’t everything. She is Starfleet through and through. She felt guilty landing her crew in the delta quad and was dedicated to get them home. She would have made time for love once back at Earth I am sure. Beautiful, strong and currageous woman! Who wouldn’t say no to her?

    B/7 is interesting! But Paris-Torres though!!! It was the only stable thorough relationship! We can’t split them up!!!!
     
  9. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    To me the most logical choice is J/C. Both Captains in their own right, both Star Fleet trained yet diffetent enough in their ideologies to make it interesting, and frankly he is the only one to truly srand up to her in a mature fashion. Of course they become close friends and confidants instead which is ok.

    In contrast 7 and Janeway are certainly not friends. 7 comes off as a petulant teenager and Janeway her exaspertated guardian. In fact Janeway says almost exactly that to Tuvok in, i think, Dark Frontier. She never really respects 7's advice. They are in a constant tug of war. Not very romantic imo but that's just me i suppose.
     
  10. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    I think J/7 would have had a better chance if Voyager was airing today but not back in the 90s. J/anyone would not work unless Janeway herself went through some drastic changes.
     
  11. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway and Chakotay were a good match. I liked them together. It was terrible waste sticking Chakotay with Seven, she had very little chemistry with him.
     
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  12. Long Syntax

    Long Syntax Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree. The Chakotay / Seven relationship never seemed natural.
     
  13. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had a problem with the chemistry not the probability. I saw potential for a connection (not necessarily romantic) as early as Scorpion part II. I liked their scenes together.

    I'm a cliche J/C through and though and I realllllly wanted the original Hunter's ending to air but Oh well...
    I should clarify, I didn't want them to be "together" but I wanted that dance they had. That fine line they were walking to be more evident and consistent. It was interesting far more than the end result of them running off into the sunset.
     
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  14. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    The connection for C/7 made sense but I don't think the actors were invested in it and it translated on screen.

    From an in universe point of view Chakotay made it clear to Janeway that he was interested, she made it clear she was not. So he tried a relationship with someone else. It did come a bit out of nowhere but we did only see them after their first (or was it second) date
     
  15. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    I think there was C/7 chemistry in Human Error but absolutely nothing after that. In fact in Endgame there was almost an anti chemistry for me and it really turned me off.

    I also agree with Caterina. In fiction the chase is always more interesting than the catching.
     
  16. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The writers should have created a "happy ending" between Chakotay and Janeway in "Endgame". Many fans wanted it.
    Instead they insulted all those fans with that Seven-Chakotay thing.
     
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  17. catshadowsi8

    catshadowsi8 Captain Captain

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    I think Janeway showed some interest in seasons 1-3 but nothing after that. I also think the show was wrong to throw C/7 at the fans like they did in Endgame. You don't necessarily have to put J/C together (not everyone likes them after all) but to throw C/7 in the J/C fan's faces was wrong imo. Felt more like someone striking back at fans than honest story telling which is nasty.
     
  18. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    I think its really interesting when people think a show creator does something intentionally to anger fans. That really makes no sense from their point of view. They want people to watch
     
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  19. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If I remember well my Voyager's archives readings, Kate Mulgrew has clearly made know to producers that she did want that her character, Kathryn Janeway, keep relationship with her First Officer as professional as possible, what meant no sex between them to keep a certain form of respect around her stature of captaincy (I don't know why but I noticed when a male captain shares a romantic link with a subordinate officer, he remains nevertheless a captain with all attributes in viewers mind = he still is the boss!. When a female individual is in the same position, people's reaction tends to be different = because she has sex with a subordinate, the female captain appears weak, losing suddenly her halo). And contrary to Jeri Taylor who wanted to build a relationships mixing friendship and love between Janeway and Chakotay, Rick Berman as Brandon Braga wanted to treat Janeway like they have done with Picard and Sisko before, so as someone strong, independent and capable (and who is recpected and admired for that) who placed her role of captain above all, including her personal (= love) life.

    For my part, I'm still convinced that a relationship with her XO would eventually cause problems at the end :
    1) because Chakotay would have expected to be treated as equals in the decision-making, at least in private, in seeing his opinion being therefore considered..But it is known howJaneway hates be dictated to conduct: yes, she tolerates and even accepts willingly receive advices from her senior crew but in the end, it is her, as Captain, who makes the final decision, following finally what her instinct dictates.
    -> Chakotay's ego would have risked more often than reason to be hurt and because he is her lover, he will have more difficulty to silent his disappointment/frustration in private, in particular, what will end into tensions which eventually affect the bridge and put Janeway in an uncomfortable position, which could lead to a break up.
    2) Unless I have missed something, Chakotay and his former crew are still treated as traitors and a criminals by Starfleet, though I don't doubt that Janeway asked to Admirality to drop the charges against them, insisting about their dedication & courage since they joined Voyager (and maybe even expected that the former Maquis crew be cleared quickly after the contact with Starfleet was reconnected... what wasn't done!). Anyway, knowing that Chakotay's situation was still pending, it would have striked the wrong mark for both to be involved in a sexual relationship, no matter the circonstances (= being far witout any idea of an eventual return).
    I know that love is blind but this feeling is clearly not shared, not by Janeway in any case!
     
  20. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    1. Janeway would have needed a bit of a tweaking to work with Chakotay romantically as of season 3 on out. I knew it was over before it began for reasons you stated above.