Why didn't they pair up Chakotay and Janeway in the end?

[Praxius]

The greater majority of us are huge nerds who have very little experience with relationships.... I would assume those working on ST are similar in experience

Hey, I resemble that remark Honestly, though, I wonder if that's really true, or just something pop culture tells us. I'm a huge loser, but I am in a good relationship and have friends. And I knew a lot of normal, well-adjusted families who liked watching Trek in the evenings.

Then again, I would go to a convention in a Trek uniform and not feel bad about it, so perhaps you're right.

I think it's a cliche that had some truth in it once (hey I went to a convention in the 70's, I know what I saw there..) but the fanbase is very broad now.

Also what is the main age group that watches Trek, is there one? Because everyone starts off with no relationship experience but by the time you're older most people have got some under their belt.

Indeed, it's just an old stereo-type.... I for the record am married and had a few relationships in the past.

I was just pulling that stereo-type out as a joke.... as even my wife will on occasion call me a nerd and someone without a life for watching and enjoying star trek.... even though in the last year or so I got her into watching all of the Star Trek seriesez and DS9 is her favorite..... she won't admit it, but she's probably just as much of a nerd as I and she now fits in the same stereo-type she once labeled me as.

I keep the stereo-type going for the simple fact that is proves the there are some out there who really don't understand Star Trek or never gave it a chance... and that indeed, ST fans come in all shapes and sizes.

Those who never gave it a chance or never had any interest in watching it simply don't know what they're missing.... much like my wife.... she'd end up reading a book or working on some craft while I had Star Trek on in the background.... eventually she was watching and listening to the show more then she was doing her hobby..... and she was pretty sad to see DS9 finished... now she watches the shows all the way through.

Oh.... but she's not a nerd, she'll say.

That's how it always starts..... denial.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

a lack of love interest for Janeway was one reason IMO that Voyager was sub-par compared to TNG and DS9. The show was good, but could have been great, like TNG or DS9.

Unless it was canonically stated that Janeway was either asexual, celibate or somehow hated the idea of relationships, it would have made her seem a more real person (or at least a more realistically portrayed character).

And in truth, it made her the odd one out amongst 24th century captains. Picard had Vash, Lt. Cmdr Darren and Anij. Sisko had Jennifer, Fenna and Kasidy.

I think the idea that Voyager was just one ship made little sense. The fact that Voyager was thousands of light years away from Federation space made a relationship more likely. What if Voyager took 30 years to reach home instead of seven? Would Mark have waited that long to wait?

Actually, Mark waited three... three and half years. Then, he met someone and, by the fourth year, was about to get married to her.

In the first season, there's a Captain's Log voice over as Janeway roams about the ship just checking it out to see how the crews are meshing and so forth. At the end of the dialouge, she makes a comment that goes something like, at this point, 'Maybe more than ever now, they need me to be larger than life. I only wish I felt larger than life.'. Then, she pauses and tells the computer to delete the last line.

That was in "The Cloud", five episodes into the series's run.

At that point, Janeway made a conscious decision to put the crew way ahead of her own needs and to become this larger-than-life persona that her crew could lean on and follow.

It worked.

By the end of the series, they would have followed her to hell and back.

But, the cost was great to Kathryn. In part, it prevented her from having a partner and a child.

"Tuvix" does an even better job at showing how Janeway feels.... Makes you wonder about Odysseus and his wife Penelope waiting at home for ?# years.

JANEWAY: Oh, I struggle with it every day. Sometimes I’m full of hope and optimism. Other times. Then I dream about being with Mark and it’s so real. Then when I wake up and realize it’s just a dream, I’m terribly discouraged. In those moments, it’s impossible to deny just how far away he really is. And I know that someday I may have to accept that he’s not part of my life anymore

(Please note which ep comes directly AFTER "Tuvix" in season 2. )

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Oh yes, that one came to mind as well.

But, I'm just saying that it was in there extremely early on that Janeway was going to pretty single minded in her focus.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

single minded in her focus.

Agreed!

 

[vas2009]

The reasons why are as stated... I just don't like it.

I don't know what it is with these things!
Like Odo and Kira... FINALLY!Then he leaves!
Chakotay and Janeway had such great chemistry. It was a huge tease for me and then they screwed up major with C/7. Although I would have been somewhat happier if Janeway just got some action.
Then there was hope... All I could do was prey Mulder and Scully would mack it... and that took forever!

Seriously they could have brought J/C together AT LEAST in the end nobody can deny that the affection was there. Oh sure you can, but it was there... and the fandom was there for it.
This is seriously the only thing I want to shake Kate Mulgrew for.
Seriously

 

[JanewayRulz!]

There was sexual/romantic tension between J/C ever since they were stranded on that planet together. If they had been left there alone much longer they totally would have been doing it.

Seriously they could have brought J/C together AT LEAST in the end nobody can deny that the affection was there.

See, this is why its good to believe in your delusions.

In MY delusions.... J/C were on that planet for 12 weeks... a good 5-6 of them occuring AFTER that "wicked" storm which led to that teardrop/hand holding scene.



Now... in what g rated universe would two people who realize that they are immensely attracted to one another, and are alone on a planet... what parallel universe believes that NOTHING happened!

Oh puhlease......

Was I the only one that saw that "sashay" Kate did after describing the wonder of talaxian tomatoes to Chakotay? Just before she extolled the joy of exploring the river with him... and bathing in said river since she would be without bathtub on the trip?

Did TPTB REALLY think Janeway looked so sad upon leaving New Earth, because she was going to miss the alien monkey she left behind?

Oh yeah.... she's a real exobiologist, that Janeway.



So in my delusions they became more than "friends" as Chak called them on Quarra (Workforce). Which made the terror of C/7 so bitterly wrong on so many levels. Age, difference in maturity and "foster incest" being my top three out of 4. For the fourth reason it was so very wrong, you'll just have to read Star trek Voyager: "Counting in Time".

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Not only did they injure the fandom by not pairing J/C in the end, they added insult to injury by inexplicably pairing him with Seven, which made no sense. Seriously, even if I weren't a J/C fan, I would still think the C/7 pairing was wrong - like, Troi/Worf levels of wrongness going on! Seven was emotionally almost a child (an adolescent at best), and besides that, what on EARTH did this two have in common? I'll never forget when future Janeway told now-Janeway that C/7 were married and she did that little flinch. My heart just broke for her.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

... besides that, what on EARTH did this two have in common?

They both loved Kathryn, but she couldn't love either of them the way they really wanted her to.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

So... does that mean Seven is Yentl....?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I don't get the reference.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Yentl.. a movie in the 1980's where a "young" girl (played by 42 year old Streisand) can only go to the yeshiva if she dresses as a teen aged boy. There she becomes best buds with Avigdor (scrumptiously played by Mandy Patinkin) and he's in love with Haddass (played demurrly by Amy Irving.)

Well... Avigdor is forbidden from marrying Haddass as his brother killed himself (making Avigdor genetically unworthy).

Avigdor tells his best friend (secretly female) that HE must act like a brother and marry Haddass so that her reputation isn't sullied by the broken engagement, and so Avigdor can still visit.

Yentl knows this is a bad idea... but she loves Avigdor and ends up doing as he asks.

Yentl AND Haddass both love Avigdor, since neither can have him they end up marrying each other just to stay near him.

It sounds more complicated than it actually is.

Great music too.

From Yentl

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[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Actually, Mark waited three... three and half years. Then, he met someone and, by the fourth year, was about to get married to her.

In the first season, there's a Captain's Log voice over as Janeway roams about the ship just checking it out to see how the crews are meshing and so forth. At the end of the dialouge, she makes a comment that goes something like, at this point, 'Maybe more than ever now, they need me to be larger than life. I only wish I felt larger than life.'. Then, she pauses and tells the computer to delete the last line.

That was in "The Cloud", five episodes into the series's run.

At that point, Janeway made a conscious decision to put the crew way ahead of her own needs and to become this larger-than-life persona that her crew could lean on and follow.

It worked.

By the end of the series, they would have followed her to hell and back.

But, the cost was great to Kathryn. In part, it prevented her from having a partner and a child.

Excellent review of Janeway's state of mind, which I totally share !!!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

They didn't pair them up because Beltran had thrown the towel so far in he was towel-less (which is bad) long before season 7 and it just wouldn't have worked. So they gave him to the Borg so she could have a starter man who was nice to her that she could practice on.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What if this was Jeri's pretty Woman moment in the store with the bitchy clerk who thought (rightly so) that she was poor?

She got her boyfriend to steal Mulgrew's love-story happy ever-after out from under her, because.... We've all seen Meangirls?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

That may be so but according to Kristin Beyer having was not so pleasing a thing as wanting for 7 in the end.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

They didn't pair them up because Beltran had thrown the towel so far in he was towel-less (which is bad) long before season 7 and it just wouldn't have worked. So they gave him to the Borg so she could have a starter man who was nice to her that she could practice on.

And after several month of cohabitation (sorry but I can't imagine talking in years about this forced romance) , he will end, alone and desperate after having been dumped AGAIN!!!!
Chakotay's karma with women made of flesh and bone and intelligent! Maybe, he would have more luck with female holograms. At less, they cannot run away ... unless being sentient, of course!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I find it interesting folks are saying Janeway couldn't have a relationship with a crewmember as it'd be unprofessional, whilst Kirk made advances/boffed numerous women under his command and no one bats an eye (not to mention Picard having a go at it as well). If anything, I think it would've shown her to be a stronger character--especially if (for example) Chakotay is in a situation where death is highly likely and she has to choose her duty and ship over her own personal feelings. It would show her as still being a leader, willing to make the tough calls despite the hardships she would face.

The Chakotay/Seven thing was a joke and should just be ignored (like collectively forgetting TATV).

I think it would've been more interesting if the final scene of the crew had been shot facing the viewscreen, Janeway and Chakotay standing on either side of the camera as they look out and see Earth and the task force ahead of them. They move closer, at which point, either:
- he sets a hand slowly on her shoulder and she looks up at him,
or
- the camera lowers and we see him take her hand (as either a sign of affection, solidarity or support),
then cut to the exterior shot of Voyager.

Something that showed there was still something there between them, something that could become more, now they were back home.

 

[Shat Happens]

Chakotay and Janeway seeing Earth, with Chakotay went, "Hey Kate, I love you," grabbed her in the ass and kissed her passionately.

Have Janeway dumbfounded and say "You dumb Indian, I've been waiting seven years for you to do that!"

I puked a little.

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

My guess? Seven was a very major character at the end and they needed to make sure it was a happy ending for her, too. Since the crew of the Voyager - the only family or friends she had in the universe - would be dispersing, they decided on a romantic relationship so she wouldn't be left alone and Chakotay was the least bad choice.

Unfortunately they didn't develop the same chemistry as he had with Janeway. But I think there was a reason they went the way they did, even if in the end it didn't work.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Well Bry_Sinclair, relative to any files about Star Trek and especially Capitains Kirk and Picard, neither of them had love affairs with women who were their direct subordinates on a hierarchical level.
Even Beverly Crusher who was the CMO aboard the USS Entreprise, had as immediate superior, William Riker, the First Officer (and not Capitain Jan-Luc Picard).

[/QUOTE] The Chakotay/Seven thing was a joke and should just be ignored (like collectively forgetting TATV).[/QUOTE]

I agree though I read that some people shipped this pairing. Those were satisfied at least!
-> As I have once written it, we would have been much more numerous to find a Janeway / Chakotay's romance ridiculous if Janeway had been interpreted by Geneviève Bujold instead of Kate Mulgrew!

Well, your direction is very romantic, Bry_Sinclair, but seriously, if Janeway didn't want Chakotay while they were all alone on a desert island (hey, even a small skinny monkey was more appealing to her than him, while he was very close by, looking at her lovingly!), how do you want that she makes a loving/touching gesture in his direction on a populated vessel, while the only thing she sees is this damned Earth, which she dreamed to reach for seven long years!