Why didn't they pair up Chakotay and Janeway in the end?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Mr. Scott, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kes breaking up with Neelix - without a warlord having to possess her to do it for them - would've been really hard for me, were I charged with writing that episode. Mostly because Kes is so guileless and vulnerable and I wouldn't want to compromise that aspect of her character. I'd probably chicken out by presenting it at the start of the show, how their breakup has already happened, very recently.

    Neelix, The Moral Officer, is now at his lowest ebb and his crewmates make it a point to turn his frown upside down. Then, to button things up, have Neelix and Kes make peace and agree that the best course is to move on ... as The Best of Friends. Not an especially original way of handling it, I must confess. But there's a lot more meat on it than the closure they got, on-camera, otherwise. And that's for certain!

    I'm forced to agree with Ghislaine, in that having Chakotay finally winning Kathryn over, by series' end would've come off as totally inorganic. It may have even been perceived as fan-service and that's not the way to go. Janeway did NOT want Chakotay, that's how it's been written over and over, again. Not in a bad way, like being rejected for being unattractive, or not being Manly enough ... she's just not interested. And Torres has already played the "I was just hiding my True Feelings, because I didn't want to get hurt" card. Having Kathryn using it, even 4 seasons later, is too repetitive and it's not going to work.

    So, what are we left with? Chakotay only won Janeway over, because of some technicality. Nobody wants that. What they SHOULD have done was suggest, very strongly, that Kathryn did want Chakotay, and that if the situation ever allowed, she'd give him something that he'd never forget. But that's not in their narrative. It was one way and that way went on for far too long. It made him look hard-up, in the end and it wasn't fun to see. I like Chakotay. He deserves a smokin' hotty who's willing ... unfortunately, that doesn't describe Janeway.
     
  2. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    written that way, yes. But they almost went there. remember the Hunters outtake? Where Janeway was wondering if she should confess? yeah totally chak/blocked us. LOL
    And hmm yeah it would have looked inorganic but she did hold his hand before her insane idea to get assimilated. i don't hold my male friend's hands. just saying.
     
  3. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I get hugs from female friends. Though never plentiful, or tongue-filled, I do get kisses, from them. They'll rub my arm/shoulder/back, but hand-holding does seem verboten ... taboo ... forbidden. What can you do ... you know? What can you do?

    I agree, completely, that Janeway should've confessed, in the final thing. If only to demonstrate that under her sexless exterior, she was just a woman ― with a hungry heart. For some reason, it's considered in bad taste for a female in a position of power to embrace her femininity. Janeway could've broken the mould on that, too, and allowed women to embrace their gender-differences. VOY is replete with missed opportunities ... BUT OH, WELL ...
     
  4. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    *shudders* most likely even though I can't wrap my mind around how they'd have sex with light contained within a forcefield.
     
  5. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's truly vulgar having a programmed sex outlet provided by STARFLEET. Holocharacters are presented to the audience as Pages in a Book, nothing more. And yet, there's this whole aura of prostitution, surrounding the phenomena of using said Holocharacters as Sex Outlets. Oh! But no MONEY is changing hands - and the "hooker" is just a mechanism! All true, but those are just technicalities ... we're splitting hairs, now. Look, if someone's into buying Hookers, or whatever - who gives a shit, really? But STARFLEET's encouraging that mindset - if not the actual practice - involved is completely unbelievable, even with their being civilians, onboard. It doesn't ring true ... or, in STAR TREK terms: jolan-TRU!
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    1. The holodeck on the Enterprise D was a common area where children could be playing at any moment. There was also no lock on the door. Unless someone booked the entire deck, or lied about maintenance, which would have to be impossible unless they have more than two pips on their collar. Also the security protocols, meant that the holodeck was being monitored by an AI nanny to make sure that nothing bad was going to happen. Even if the safety protocols on the holodeck didn't "stop" sex as it happened, the Enterprise's holodeck was going to record sex for Security to review at a later date.

    Enterprise D's holodeck was "mostly" innocent.

    2. Quark ran a brothel.
     
  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm well-pleased that Enterprise-D's holodeck was "innocent." Captain Picard runs a taught ship!

    Kathryn tries to, but she's a bit too 'familiar' with her crew, though. I know that there are those in the fanbase who appreciate this aspect of The Good Captain, but it undermines her leadership. Sending your buddies to certain death on desperate missions doesn't quite cut it. Captain Picard had exactly the right approach towards handling the burden of command. Whereas Kathryn only took that approach with regard to Chakotay. Isn't that interesting? She bends the rules everywhere else ... but not so with her Field Promoted First Officer (where there's plenty of opportunity to play fast and loose with Rules & Regulations).

    My theory? Captain Kathryn Janeway doesn't want to disappoint Chakotay.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My worst theory is if all the Maquis get killed on the trip home she doesn't have to explain why they're not in chains to the parade welcoming her, or why to her "family" that no one organized a pardon for their terrorism en route.

    Fairhaven was a nonstop orgy.

    Sound baffling and false perspective, means that one crewman could be having sex with a friend or a hologram, and be unaware that multiple different crewmen might be be having sex with a friend or a hologram less then five feet away from where they are having sex.

    There's two considerations about he children on Voyager while this massive orgy was taking place.

    1. The Captain trusted the sound baffling and false perspective, so that even if a child slipped on a puddle or reproductive juice, they would still be mostly unaware of being surrounded by constant ####ing as they played soccer or flew kites with Flotter.

    2. Naomi and the Borg children were banned from Fairhaven. The door was locked, and would not let them in.
     
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  9. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    STARFLEET would forgive all, and we know that, already. It would be interesting if there were any uncertainty about that, though, because it would make for good storytelling. But Captain Jean-Luc Picard - in any other reality - would've been forced into retirement, after all of Locutus' death-dealing. Not-so-much because of what (perceived) effect that might've had on him, but because of situations like Commander Benjamin Sisko's. Too many people in STARFLEET know what Locutus did and they paid a heavy price for it. To turn around, now, and say, "hey! Don't worry ... we understand! These things happen" and let Picard go about his business CAN'T play. But it did, because ... That's Entertainment! What we crave for, inside.

    Even NuKirk getting command of the ENTERPRISE ahead of ALL of those excellent young officers already in the que, for doing nothing more than successfully completing a mission subscribes to this. And, of course, the "trial" in THE VOYAGE HOME was a Travesty of Justice, but it filled audiences with that warm, fuzzy feeling that they feel ... when their favourite characters are allowed Off the Hook, as it were, and given license to do it all ... over ... again! So, in short, the Maquis are quite $afe ... I assure you. Still, it would've amused to see Tom Paris back in the pen, trying to communicate with his equally incarcerated wife, to inquire about the state of their children, now in a Federation-run orphanage, eating gruel ... and getting harassed over their parentage, until they make a break for it, headed for Kronos ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Extradition to Cardassia for Crimes against the Cardassian Union.

    Kirk earned his ship back in 4.

    Starfleet didn't want to send Jean-Luc to the front in First Contact.

     
  11. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yesterday, I fell on bonus from season 7. I don't know why I waited so long to watch it because it was pretty informative.
    What I retained is:

    - Mulgrew wasn't opposed to the idea of seeing Janeway in love and living fully her romance, what gave to her character the opportunity to be herself ... even for a short time (and for the actress to "work with some wonderful actors"). That's why she loved Counterpart & Workforce.
    => what could mean "I like the idea of Janeway being in love but... not with Chakotay"?! ;)

    - Kenneth Biller, who wrote Endgame with Bernan & Braga exlaining that 1) they wanted to end with the Borgs, which were known as the worst ennemies met by capitains of Starfleet (Picard, Janeway) -> Result:
    Voyager had to meet the Queen Borg & her armada of cubes/spheres again to be able to gom home 2) after several months of reflection about how to end ST: Voyager (Braga wrote Human Error, his last script for Voyager, in preparation of Endgame, where Seven had to sacrifice herself to save her current "collective" but the idea was given up because unpopular) but one thing was sure in their mind: they had to surprise viewers in making unexpected things...
    At least, we got Voyager moving forward slowly in direction of the Earth surrounded withthe armada of vessels of Starfleet while e expected to see Janeway and her crew be welcome by friends & relatives AND of course, Chakotay/Seven be paired while a great majority of fans wanted Janeway/Chakotay.
    -> I understand the idea of ending the journey instead of showing the return at home, the second though, the Chakotay/Seven pairing, left people, including me, dumbfounded and not in good way! :whistle:
     
  12. stardream

    stardream Commodore Commodore

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    I thought it interesting in the books that the very fact that they made it home when they did was what broke up the relationship. If they had stayed within the 'safe' confines of Voyager where everyone was looking out for her Seven could continue to learn about herself, humanity and the complexities of relationships at her own speed and Chakotay would be a gentleman about it and allow her to take her time.

    Suddenly they are back in the Alpha Quadrant and Seven is having to make a million adjustments but has enough self-awareness to know any relationship she had would suffer because she could just not cope with it in her new environment.

    Which ironically was one of the reasons Admiral Janeway came back in the first place...so the two would have more time together.

    Thank you, Christie Golden. ;)
     
  13. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

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    J/C actors had no chemistry, there was better platonic chemistry between J/Sof9
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When Yar knew Data - 'Biblically' knew - in TNG's "The Naked Now," and found her feminine curiosity completely satisfied, she told him - OK? - she said to him ON THE BRIDGE (!!!) of all places, ".... it (our sexual experimentation) never happened!" And Data didn't even bother to play stupid at that remark, like he normally would. No. He understood that, immediately ... right away, he realised, "... the party's over." At least his positronic brain had continuous HD playback at its disposal. But, again, Data was kicked to the curb.

    In the same manner, Captain Janeway could've had Chakotay in the privacy of her own quarters, and then, when they were on the bridge later, she could announce to him, "... it never happened!" And that would, you know, wrap up that storyline in a tidy bow, for all to see. And to give a better picture, here's Chakotay's face, as her hateful words burn in his tender ears ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  15. DarkBiCIn

    DarkBiCIn Cadet Newbie

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    To all those who question what happened on the Planet during "Resolutions" Its so obvious they were intimate.
    A) Look at the intimate moment when Chakotay shared the "story" about the ancient warrior scene.
    B) The only other point that needs to be mentioned about them doing each other on the planet is at the end of the episode which most people completely miss (innocent minded people). If you watch the last few seconds She tells him which departments he needs to go over. As 2nd in command he will already know what needs to be reconfirmed and checked over. So when she says "Check with Phaser Maintenance. See if they solved that problem with the PREFIRE CHAMBER TEMPATURE". Sounds a lot similar to.... well ill leave you to figure out what that sounds similar to. But that scene alone seemed to leave a really wide gap open to interpretation on what happen during the black screen after the first point.

    Yes Im aware nothing eventually happened persay on the TV show but also observing that they clearly had some intimacy atleast on the planet
     
  16. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    @DarkBiCIn They did act guilty for two people who just shared palms. And the ass wag to the house. But that isn't a definiative sign. Probably why we've been speculating for 20 years. Just another reset button for Janeway. Chakotay's came later. Put whatever innuendo you like. I wasn't trying to be punny.
     
  17. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    Seven? That's a lot of people at once... :eek:

    :guffaw:

    But in complete seriousness, the following must be asked: Why is Seven too "childlike"? She's a grown adult, but who had been traumatized rather significantly - and as far back as childhood. That makes her different and needing more than just what typical couples guide each other through with problems. But not incapable or disposable as she's clearly wanting to work with her "new collective" (Voyager's crew and captain). Had she lived in the early 21st century, would she not technically be the equivalent of... an incel? (involuntary celibacy)
     
  18. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe they meant naive? I mean she offered to sleep with Kim. That's green. LOL "Sure..whatever." It just seems like a child who doesn't know boundaries and the ways of social graces yet. By the end of the series, I would remove the child label. Because she's shown tremendous growth. That's my opinion and view point.
     
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  19. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks much for the info and clarification! I've definitely got a few more episodes to watch; I honestly don't recall where she made an advance on him. Or her character arc in general, though I do remember various Seven/Janeway conversations that were the guts of what made Trek great. It's been forever since I had a VOY marathon anyway...
     
  20. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She didn't. She presumed it's what he wanted by the mood setting. She called him out. And I think her forwardness freaked him out. HAHA. See "Day of Honor" I think the ep is called.