Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[RJDiogenes]

Well, this was another great episode. This show is a breath of fresh air in the current cultural climate. I hope they don't do something stupid, like make Coulson an LMD or kill off one of the twins for cheap shock effect. The conversation between Sky and Ward is emblematic of what I want to see from this show, not the usual dark, gritty, forced conflict, arrested adolescence that is the norm.

I wonder if Coulson keeps talking about Tahiti as a magical place because he subconsciously remembers being in a real magical place. Maybe Thor took him to Asgard for some supernatural healing. Or maybe he plucked him out of Valhalla. Of course, there must be some reason why he "must never know."

 

[Guy Gardener]

This would be the worst.

As punishment for killing Coulson, Odin turned Loki into Coulson.

 

[TemporalFlux]

I still believe that the movie universe cosmic cube is more like the comic book version than they've let on. If that's the case, then it may be that Coulson was "wished" back to life; and if Coulson ever believes he is really dead, then the wish will be shattered and he will be dead.

 

[The Old Mixer]

As punishment for killing Coulson, Odin turned Loki into Coulson.

Not likely, judging by the trailers for Thor 2....

Huh, you read Fitz' interactions when Skye arrives on the bus completely opposite from me. I didn't see him as barely tolerating her, but as being flustered and maybe attracted to her.

Same here.

 

[Mr Light]

I like Fitz/Simmons. British/Scottish accents always win. And the girl is adorable.

The actual plotline of the episode wasn't very impressive but it was enjoyable. I'm hoping we get more super hero orientated storylines.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Huh, you read Fitz' interactions when Skye arrives on the bus completely opposite from me. I didn't see him as barely tolerating her, but as being flustered and maybe attracted to her.

Same here.

Me, as well. Also, in the first episode, there was that whole "When you get back, I'll show you my thing. Not my thing, my unit. My equipment! Let's just hang up now." exchange.

 

[Christopher]

The time to assess which characters, if any, get the most attention is after episode 22, maybe episode 13, but not episode 2.

I'm not giving the show 22 episodes to decide if I want to stick with it.

But that's not the same topic at all. Whether you want to watch it is a question of opinion that only you can decide. Whether future episodes of the series will actually feature some characters more than others is a question of objective fact that will remain unaltered regardless of your personal viewing choices.

Who knows? Maybe episodes 3 and 4 will heavily feature May or Fitz-Simmons and shunt Skye and Ward into the background. Two data points are simply not enough to prove a pattern.

I would assume well trained military men and women know how to secure prisoners so they don't escape.

And well-trained military women like May know how to escape from being secured. It's clear enough by now that she has a well-earned reputation as an incredibly skilled fighter/agent, one who's worth a whole unit's worth of soldiers ("the Cavalry") by herself.

Where did I say, or anyone say, they wanted to kill the SHIELD agents... (who knows, maybe I did)...

Why do you keep asking me what you said or didn't say before? If you want to know that, it's easy enough to scroll back in the thread and reread it yourself. Then we could save time and actually move forward in the conversation instead of constantly stopping to review the transcript.

Why would Reyes people want to use lethal tactics? They needed the SHIELD agents alive to use as leverage on Coulson.

My whole point is that they wouldn't want to use lethal tactics.

Huh, you read Fitz' interactions when Skye arrives on the bus completely opposite from me. I didn't see him as barely tolerating her, but as being flustered and maybe attracted to her.

Hmm, maybe. But in any case, it's a difference between them -- Fitz is more shy, Simmons more outgoing.

I thought that Reyes threatened to dump the team out the cargo hatch if Coulson didn't cooperate and approve the course change. That's hardly "avoid[ing] lethal tactics"...

But it was only a threat, one they weren't going to carry out unless they had to. My point is that they didn't default to killing, but saved it as a last resort. They used the threat of violence to control the opposition without harming them more than necessary. So yes, they were certainly trying to avoid lethal tactics.

I think they based that date on the rock it was embedded in. Not realizing the weapon had melted itself down into the rock.

Yes, that was my impression. And they didn't just assert "It's 1500 years old" and leave it at that. They said that there was evidence suggesting an age of 1500 years, but at the same time its design looked German, which conflicted with that evidence. So the uncertainty of that age estimate was made clear from the get-go.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Let's be clear on this: These were not evil people. These were not people who were planning to be enemies of the SHIELD team when they got on the plane, or at least that's the way I read it. But the 0-8-4 was a powerful weapon and their commandante decided that it should be under Peruvian control rather than SHIELD control. This wasn't a war, it was a strategic decision to betray an ally for their own country's good. So it makes sense that they didn't want to kill the team, just overpower them. It makes sense that Reyes's troops were improvising somewhat, and that maybe their hearts weren't in it.

And yet at least one Peruvian soldier came equipped with the fairly sophisticated device to drill a hole and gas the cockpit. Is that really the sort of device you'd carry when you're just out to fight rebels in the jungle? Additionally, once aboard, the Peruvian troops didn't need much communication at all to coordinate; they just needed to make some simple signs to one another. Even if she didn't make the final decision until she saw the SHIELD team, it looks to me like Reyes and her team came prepared for a variety of contingencies.

They have no reason to distrust the Peruvian military, fwiw. While SHIELD's exact nature seems unclear, it does seem that they had the support of the Peruvian government when they arrived there. There's no reason not to think they were on the same team until it became obvious that they were going to be betrayed.

After Reyes's troops arrived, Skye commented to Grant that the rebels were fighting back against government money policies. I took that comment as a forewarning, since it prepared us for the possibility that National Police were fascists. Too bad Coulson wasn't there to hear those comments. Maybe he would have already been wondering whether Camilla had changed.

 

[Christopher]

And yet at least one Peruvian soldier came equipped with the fairly sophisticated device to drill a hole and gas the cockpit. Is that really the sort of device you'd carry when you're just out to fight rebels in the jungle? Additionally, once aboard, the Peruvian troops didn't need much communication at all to coordinate; they just needed to make some simple signs to one another. Even if she didn't make the final decision until she saw the SHIELD team, it looks to me like Reyes and her team came prepared for a variety of contingencies.

Those are good points. My impression is that the heist was somewhat spontaneous, but maybe that impression was in error. I did wonder if the rebel attack was staged as a pretext for the soldiers boarding the Bus, but that was never made clear, so I was inclined to discount the possibility. Maybe I was wrong.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I did wonder if the rebel attack was staged as a pretext for the soldiers boarding the Bus, but that was never made clear, so I was inclined to discount the possibility. Maybe I was wrong.

Yeah, I also wondered whether the rebels had been somehow tipped off or led there. On the other hand, maybe an attack on exposed government troops was just an inevitability that Camilla could pretty much count on.

 

[Leonardo T. Dragon]

Two weeks in and I'm left with one impression:

This series is like "Diet Dr. Thunder"-- it's tolerable but only has half of the flavor and taste of the original.

Yes, it's not the best explanation but it really feels very bland in terms of a series. The pilot was "okay"-- nothing earth-shattering but nothing risky either. The series is very much a "by the numbers" show that offers little in terms of twists and turns and yet has more name-dropping than you can shake a stick at. It's like the writers have a compulsive need to remind us that this series is a spin-off of the Avengers movie.

Part of it is pacing. Honestly-- the series two aired episodes have just shambled along. I'm also surprised by how non-military the series is. They're agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.-- in the comics those guys were ALWAYS in uniform. I almost wonder if the series could benefit from a few former SG-1 writers on staff.

Regardless, I'm giving it a 6 episode trial but with two episodes down I'm just not really attached to anyone or anything on the series.

 

[bigdaddy]

They are most likely not in uniform to be undercover.

But Stargate had military advisors on the show, they had the full backing of the military. SHIELD probably does not.

 

[Trekker4747]

Christopher/Zoom need to agree to disagree or get a room already.

Anyway, I still like the series but, yeah, there's nothing earth shattering or "must-tune-in" here. The only reason(s) to watch it are Coulson and the connection to the MCU. I'm still not sure, either, yet on where this series lies as far as genres go. Is this a procedural? Is it going to be a Freak of the Week, what? I don't know how much the series can maintain itself if every week is just another "bizarre device/person" event.

 

[Kytee]

I loved episode 2, really enjoying the show so far. I find it interesting how they seem to be really trying to push the 'SHIELD are the good guys' angle. In Avengers we had Captain America and Iron Man uncovering the nefarious deeds of SHIELD's weapon manufacture. Between last weeks 'The next guy will want to exploit him, and the guy after that dissect him' line and this weeks reveal that they toss super powered devices into the sun instead of keeping them for study, SHIELD is really coming off altruistic.

I'm enjoying that so far, in Avengers we were seeing things from the super heroes point of view, this show gives us everything from SHIELD's angle.

Can't wait for next week,
Kytee

 

[Christopher]

Anyway, I still like the series but, yeah, there's nothing earth shattering or "must-tune-in" here. The only reason(s) to watch it are Coulson and the connection to the MCU.

I agree, it does need to deepen things, both the characters and the storylines. But I see enough mysteries and arcs being seeded that I'm willing to believe that will happen.

I'm still not sure, either, yet on where this series lies as far as genres go. Is this a procedural? Is it going to be a Freak of the Week, what? I don't know how much the series can maintain itself if every week is just another "bizarre device/person" event.

These days, most shows are a balance of episodic "X-of-the-week" plots and serialized character/mythology arcs, with the weekly plots serving to advance the characters' arcs or resonate with their personal issues. Networks like procedurals, so many shows tend to start out designed to look like procedurals, but then they sneak in progressively more elaborate arcs and serialized sagas as they continue. A case in point would be Fringe. The creators swore up and down to the network when they pitched the show that it would be an episodic procedural without the kind of convoluted mythology and serialization that Lost featured -- and they basically lied outright to get the show on the air, since it ended up being all about the overarching mythology.

And really, if you think about it, it was Stan Lee and his collaborators at Marvel who pioneered that style of storytelling, that balance of self-contained adventures and evolving character arcs. In Silver Age Marvel comics, 2-parters or multiparters were rare and generally each crisis was wrapped up within a single issue, but there was always the ongoing soap opera of the characters' personal lives running alongside the action, and events in one issue had consequences on later issues, and often there were lasting changes in continuity like team members leaving and being replaced or characters being killed off or married or relationships otherwise changing in lasting ways. And that's the model the MCU movies have followed -- each one is a self-contained story, but there are underlying threads tying them together, and later ones are shaped by events in earlier ones, etc.

So it seems to me it would only be appropriate if this show employed that same pattern -- and since it's the pattern that most modern scripted dramas already follow, I have no reason to doubt that it will.

 

[Maab of the Ten Tribes]

I've found the episodes adequate so far. It has kept my interest enough to keep going.

Regarding episode 2, when they said stay 'til the very end they meant it, huh? I enjoyed it but I just wonder how much of that kind of stuff they will feed us throughout the season.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The time to assess which characters, if any, get the most attention is after episode 22, maybe episode 13, but not episode 2.

I'm not giving the show 22 episodes to decide if I want to stick with it.

But that's not the same topic at all. Whether you want to watch it is a question of opinion that only you can decide. Whether future episodes of the series will actually feature some characters more than others is a question of objective fact that will remain unaltered regardless of your personal viewing choices.

It isn't the same topic. The reason I watch a show is, and I assume for you as well, but I don't know, is the characters, and if the show is going to put those two characters in the spot light more often than not, because they are the romantic leads, I'm not interested in continuing. So, yeah, it's pretty much why I brought it up.

Who knows? Maybe episodes 3 and 4 will heavily feature May or Fitz-Simmons and shunt Skye and Ward into the background. Two data points are simply not enough to prove a pattern.

I'm sure things will move around, but those two will be more important to the heart of the show. More so than say Fitz/Simmons. And, I disagree, a pilot is going to tell you what's important, what the show is about. You brought up River, River's mystery is important to the pilot, as her mystery was important to the show.

And well-trained military women like May know how to escape from being secured.

And the Peruvian military made her job way easier. Because as was pointed out, no one could've escaped if they didn't come up with a plan together.

It's clear enough by now that she has a well-earned reputation as an incredibly skilled fighter/agent, one who's worth a whole unit's worth of soldiers ("the Cavalry") by herself.

Which is great, I'm interested in May's story. However, why did the writers choose to make it easy on her and the characters?

Why do you keep asking me what you said or didn't say before? If you want to know that, it's easy enough to scroll back in the thread and reread it yourself. Then we could save time and actually move forward in the conversation instead of constantly stopping to review the transcript.

And this is where I think we need to stop discussing. I keep asking you that because you keep saying things to me like "Let's be clear: they aren't evil" or "they don't want to use lethal tactics" suggesting that I said those things, (Or at worst, lecturing me). Why did you say them? You injected them into the discussion. So I asked, why did you say them? Did I suggest that they were Evil?

In regards to the military, I said they were stupid because they didn't know how to secure hostages/enemy. And you keep talking about lethal tactics. Is a gag a lethal tactic?

But, don't worry about answering. We shouldn't talk about this anymore. I know I'm getting into a snarky place, and over a show I don't really care about? Fuck, no.

 

[Kelthaz]

It isn't the same topic. The reason I watch a show is, and I assume for you as well, but I don't know, is the characters, and if the show is going to put those two characters in the spot light more often than not, because they are the romantic leads, I'm not interested in continuing. So, yeah, it's pretty much why I brought it up.

Either the romantic leads won't get as much attention as you expect or, because it's a Joss Whedon show, it's setup to brutally kill one of them off. Either way, you won't have to watch the happy couple for very long.

 

[Christopher]

But that's not the same topic at all....

It isn't the same topic.

Then we agree on that, if nothing else. Let's leave it at that.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

My daughter is a big Firefly fan - I wasn't really watching shows during its run - and she was totally convinced that the show is Firefly.

She spent the hour comparing each cast member and pointing out that the "Bus" was Serenity and the lab was equal to the medical bay.

I haven't watched FF enough to verify it, but that was her take, coming from an obsessive fan. She was a bit "meh" about the pilot, but she is now hooked. We joked/speculated that Whedon is subversively getting his show back on the air without the network knowing.

Meanwhile, about a few points mentioned upthread....

I though the other thing about Fury appearing is it puts the whole concept of this team outside of regular SHIELD operations. It is an experiment, Coulsen is trying something new, and they are going to be breaking protocol regularly, if not constantly. This has been somewhat a part of the dialogue already, but Fury's comments really seal this concept.

And about Melinda "Calvary" May. I totally see that they are going to develop her gradually, and she will be more as the series goes on. But right now, she hates what she's doing, hates who she's with, and has nothing to say other than "We should have parked over there." As a person, I find her a completely unattractive turn-off and would have no desire to spend 15 seconds with her. I don't find her "hot" at all, for those reasons. I look forward to her character development.

Ward is NOT James Bond. Among Bond's many skills is his ability to handle people. Particularly women, but really he can manipulate almost anyone in almost any situation. He's smooth. Ward is a child.

Simmons is a darling.