Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Guy Gardener]

What about A.I.M?

Hmmm... Oh, they were in Iron Man III after a fashion.

Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?

 

[Kelthaz]

Now that's more like it. The first episode was bland, but the second is everything that I was hoping for.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?

The interesting bit is when you consider what happened approximately 1500 years ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I enjoyed "0-8-4" a lot. The Fury cameo was fun, but I was hoping for something a little more ominous or foreshadow-y.

ETA: One nit-- I thought that sealing the hole in the plane with the life raft was iffy even as a stop-gap, but they sure weren't in any hurry to leave that compromised cabin once the crisis had passed.

The scene was technically completely unrealistic anyway. You don't get sucked out of planes like that when a cabin loses pressure (just ask Squiggy). But it's a trope at least as old as Goldfinger, so I'm not going to complain.

 

[Trekker4747]

For what it's worth it'd be "blown" out, not sucked.

 

[Captain Craig]

Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?

The interesting bit is when you consider what happened approximately 1500 years ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

I didn't put any thought into it but the 1500 yr old "new" artifact wasn't lost on me. Figured it might come into play.
Morgan LeFey would indeed be interesting.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Why did they say "Tachyons" and "It's been in the ground for 1500 years" if someone wasn't going to travel through time at some point?

Is it possible, that episode briefly was a time travel story and then some derailed the story because there's a "better" time travel story in the works?

The interesting bit is when you consider what happened approximately 1500 years ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

I know it doesn't seem possible, but doesn't Morgana seem just a little bit hotter since we found out she and Victor Von Doom travel through time routinely to hook up?

 

[Professor Zoom]

How is it not clear that the mystery of Coulson's survival is going to be an important arc? Not to mention May's backstory and the secret of why she walked away from combat missions? Those mysteries both feel to me like they're as important to the show as Skye's. This is what ensemble shows do. They have balls in the air for all the characters at once.

When did I say Coulson's survival WASN'T going to be an important arc?

This discussion between you and I was about whether Skye and the guy (almost there with the names) are leads or not, not whether or not Coulson's story is important.

.


They were together and not closely guarded because the idea was that they could all get dumped out the rear hatch at a moment's notice.

See, I hadn't considered that... that makes them smart...

And the hijackers were underestimating the team's abilities.

Peruvian military underestimating SHIELD, after their Commander previously worked with them? Ah, that makes them stupid again.

 

[Christopher]

When did I say Coulson's survival WASN'T going to be an important arc?

Today at 5:52 PM my time:

That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.

This discussion between you and I was about whether Skye and the guy (almost there with the names) are leads or not, not whether or not Coulson's story is important.

Those questions are intertwined, not mutually exclusive. Claiming that other characters are the actual leads is the same thing as claiming that Coulson will not play as important a role as they will. Unless you're defining "lead" in a very unusual way.

Peruvian military underestimating SHIELD, after their Commander previously worked with them? Ah, that makes them stupid again.

Not at all. Reyes had worked with Coulson and a different team before. As she said, she decided to turn on SHIELD "the moment I saw your team." That means that seeing this particular team and its evident lack of cohesion made her think they were vulnerable.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They have no reason to distrust the Peruvian military, fwiw. While SHIELD's exact nature seems unclear, it does seem that they had the support of the Peruvian government when they arrived there. There's no reason not to think they were on the same team until it became obvious that they were going to be betrayed.

 

[Professor Zoom]

When did I say Coulson's survival WASN'T going to be an important arc?

Today at 5:52 PM my time:

That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.

I guess I did. And I shouldn't have said that. That is wrong. They are. I think they will develop it later.

This discussion between you and I was about whether Skye and the guy (almost there with the names) are leads or not, not whether or not Coulson's story is important.

Those questions are intertwined, not mutually exclusive. Claiming that other characters are the actual leads is the same thing as claiming that Coulson will not play as important a role as they will. Unless you're defining "lead" in a very unusual way.

Coulson is a lead, okay? And I think the pair are also leads. I think their story will be a major focus of the show. More so than Fitz and Simmons, even more than Ming Na.

Sky and Handsome guy are leads. The romantic leads if you will. This isn't unusual.

Peruvian military underestimating SHIELD, after their Commander previously worked with them? Ah, that makes them stupid again.

Not at all. Reyes had worked with Coulson and a different team before. As she said, she decided to turn on SHIELD "the moment I saw your team." That means that seeing this particular team and its evident lack of cohesion made her think they were vulnerable.

Vulnerable to attack, sure. But, once you have them captured, why ease up? Why give them an opportunity to, you know, talk? Make plans? Unless SHIELD has a reputation for taking on incompetent people...

It was clearly an easy way for the writer's to "get the band to bond."

 

[Guy Gardener]

The interesting thing to note is that the reason she slept with him before, is that Phil had a hundred soldiers under him, which she equated with power, and power is always sexy.

I wonder how many men I need under me before I'm that sexy?

 

[Mr Light]

To a certain kind of man? Only one.

 

[Christopher]

Coulson is a lead, okay? And I think the pair are also leads. I think their story will be a major focus of the show. More so than Fitz and Simmons, even more than Ming Na.

They're all leads. It's an ensemble show. Look at just about any series on the air today, certainly any Whedon series, and you'll find that different episodes focus on different characters, that the spotlight is pretty well distributed. I see no reason to doubt that the same will be true here. (One thing that impressed me about Dollhouse was that, even though Eliza Dushku was a producer on the show and it was created as a star vehicle for her, she was very willing to step back and cede the spotlight to the rest of the ensemble rather than hogging it to herself. She even played a peripheral role in the climax of the series finale.)

The time to assess which characters, if any, get the most attention is after episode 22, maybe episode 13, but not episode 2.

Vulnerable to attack, sure. But, once you have them captured, why ease up? Why give them an opportunity to, you know, talk? Make plans? Unless SHIELD has a reputation for taking on incompetent people...

It was clearly an easy way for the writer's to "get the band to bond."

Let's be clear on this: These were not evil people. These were not people who were planning to be enemies of the SHIELD team when they got on the plane, or at least that's the way I read it. But the 0-8-4 was a powerful weapon and their commandante decided that it should be under Peruvian control rather than SHIELD control. This wasn't a war, it was a strategic decision to betray an ally for their own country's good. So it makes sense that they didn't want to kill the team, just overpower them. It makes sense that Reyes's troops were improvising somewhat, and that maybe their hearts weren't in it.

Which, when I look at it that way, makes it kind of terrible that the SHIELD team's action ended up causing the deaths of at least two of Reyes's soldiers. You could argue Reyes was ultimately responsible, but still, at least her people took care to avoid lethal tactics.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Those SHIELD agents had to die. The Peruvian bushwack only happened because they only obey SHIELD when it seems like they have no choice. The perfect crime requires no witnesses otherwise an irresistible number of SHIELD soldiers and lawyers would persue the matter for years... Or Fury might just fund and arm the rebels.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The time to assess which characters, if any, get the most attention is after episode 22, maybe episode 13, but not episode 2.

I'm not giving the show 22 episodes to decide if I want to stick with it.

Vulnerable to attack, sure. But, once you have them captured, why ease up? Why give them an opportunity to, you know, talk? Make plans? Unless SHIELD has a reputation for taking on incompetent people...

It was clearly an easy way for the writer's to "get the band to bond."

Let's be clear on this: These were not evil people.

I never said they were. They are military. And I assumed well trained military. I would assume well trained military men and women know how to secure prisoners so they don't escape.

These were not people who were planning to be enemies of the SHIELD team when they got on the plane, or at least that's the way I read it. But the 0-8-4 was a powerful weapon and their commandante decided that it should be under Peruvian control rather than SHIELD control. This wasn't a war, it was a strategic decision to betray an ally for their own country's good. So it makes sense that they didn't want to kill the team, just overpower them. It makes sense that Reyes's troops were improvising somewhat, and that maybe their hearts weren't in it.

Where did I say, or anyone say, they wanted to kill the SHIELD agents... (who knows, maybe I did)... I'm talking about securing your hostages, which is what they were. The soldiers did a really really poor job of securing the hostages... They didn't even GAG them. Seriously, even I know you might want to prevent your highly trained hostages from talking to each other.

Which, when I look at it that way, makes it kind of terrible that the SHIELD team's action ended up causing the deaths of at least two of Reyes's soldiers. You could argue Reyes was ultimately responsible, but still, at least her people took care to avoid lethal tactics.

Why would Reyes people want to use lethal tactics? They needed the SHIELD agents alive to use as leverage on Coulson.

 

[Thestral]

Much, much better Episode 2. Nice to have the characters interacting with each other so much, and the banter seemed much improved for my money. Some very nice action scenes, and just overall the episode seemed a lot more focused and cohesive with its characters. Ward's a lot more likeable, I'm intrigued with how they'll handle Skye's story, Coulson's Tahiti experience should be an interesting mystery, Melinda May is a nice slow-burning mystery.

Fury's appearance made me grin. Sure it didn't add much, but it was a lot of fun. Besides, why not check in on his... third-hand (?) man who's just recently come back from "Tahiti?" I didn't read him as being truly angry, just more flabbergasted and venting some steam.

I don't think F & S are interchangeable. Fitz is the more neurotic, sensitive, timid one while Simmons is more upbeat and reassuring. As we heard here, she's the one who prodded him to go into the field, while his preference would've been to stay in the lab. And she was friendly and welcoming to Skye while he was rolling his eyes and barely seemed to tolerate her. Aside from both being technobabble-spewing science nerds, they're pretty much polar opposites. Which is no doubt why they make a good team -- they complement each other.

Huh, you read Fitz' interactions when Skye arrives on the bus completely opposite from me. I didn't see him as barely tolerating her, but as being flustered and maybe attracted to her.

I gotta say, am I the only one that loves FitzSimmons? They remind me of a somewhat more neurotic Ken and Gabi from Mass Effect 2/3. (Actually, the whole setup feels very RPG-ish to some extent - The Bus is Normandy, Coulsen's Shep, May's a blend of Joker and Wrex, etc.)

Sure, they haven't actually done a whole lot yet and I can see how they'd come across as obnoxious, but they just make me grin. I'll be annoyed if they kill one of them for tEh drama, but with this being a Whedon show I expect one of them - probably Fitz - to bite it down the line. And I'm sure they'll make it work really well and be a good tearjerker that leads to some really good stories, but nonetheless.

Speaking of deaths, what if the real twist about Coulsen is that he's actually aware of his nature (assuming that there's something there - LMD/clone/whatever) and he's mostly worked through the emotional baggage of it, somewhat explaining his notorious sentimentality? The big reveal will just be for the other characters (and the audience of course), but Coulsen will be aware.

 

[ATimson]

Which, when I look at it that way, makes it kind of terrible that the SHIELD team's action ended up causing the deaths of at least two of Reyes's soldiers. You could argue Reyes was ultimately responsible, but still, at least her people took care to avoid lethal tactics.

I thought that Reyes threatened to dump the team out the cargo hatch if Coulson didn't cooperate and approve the course change. That's hardly "avoid[ing] lethal tactics"...

 

[JD]

I really enjoyed this episode. Great story, fun character interations, and we got to learn more about Coulson's history.
There was one small bit I was confused by though. When FitzSimmons were checking out the 0-8-4 they said it was 1500(?) years old, but then later I thought Reyes said that her government made it after Hydra fell. Did I misunderstand something there?
As for FitzSimmons, I really like them.
Fury's cameo at the end was great.

 

[sojourner]

I really enjoyed this episode. Great story, fun character interations, and we got to learn more about Coulson's history.
There was one small bit I was confused by though. When FitzSimmons were checking out the 0-8-4 they said it was 1500(?) years old, but then later I thought Reyes said that her government made it after Hydra fell. Did I misunderstand something there?

I think they based that date on the rock it was embedded in. Not realizing the weapon had melted itself down into the rock.