Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Guy Gardener]

I asked the thing in my pants what it wanted.

"Amber Benson." It replied.

I googled Amber Benson + SHIELD.

8 seconds later this was found...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuU8NRo-3g[/yt]

How did it know?! How did the thing in my pants know?

(Sometimes I think it's way smarter than I am.)

 

[bbjeg]

I liked Episode 2 but I want to see something super.

 

[Christopher]

I suppose if you want to be pedantic about it, sure, those two have higher billing. But as has been pointed out Ming-Na and and Clark have had longer careers, and Clark is the most recognizable component to this spin off.

However, meh 1 and meh 2 are clearly being set up to be big components of the show.

It's not pedantry. Gregg's first billing is not arbitrary; the whole reason this show exists is as a star vehicle for him. Yes, Ward and Skye are getting a significant amount of attention too, but Coulson, I think, is getting more. He doesn't need as much setup, as much dialogue and business to establish who he is and what he's about, but he's still getting plenty of screen time.

Meh 2 is our entry point into this universe, she even was the first voice we heard.

Doesn't prove anything. Jubilee was the entry point into the '90s X-Men series, and though the first voice we heard in that show's pilot was a newsreader, Jubilee was the first regular character we met. But she was far from the dominant member of the series that followed. Heck, the first line of Moby-Dick is "Call me Ishmael," but Ishmael is largely peripheral to the book's events.

Skye's narration opening the pilot was a stylistic choice that made sense for the pilot. Her role within that story was the Internet gadfly who posted manifestos in, evidently, audio-blog form (because that works better onscreen than showing a block of written text and waiting for the audience to read it), so since she was going to be doing that in the episode anyway, it made sense to use her as a vehicle for the opening exposition. But that's about the needs of the pilot. It doesn't prove anything about the overall focus of the show -- as evidenced by the fact that she didn't give any narration this time.

And of course since the pilot was about her recruitment, it was natural that the story would focus on her -- and on Ward, who was also being brought into the team for the first time. The two of them are still new, still adjusting to the idea of being on a team, so that focus remains in episode 2. That doesn't mean the focus won't broaden as the series continues and those two get settled in. In an ensemble series, it can be hard to predict who will be the breakouts. (Heck, the makers of Iron Man had no idea what would happen when they cast Clark Gregg in a minor supporting role.)

 

[Professor Zoom]

It's not pedantry. Gregg's first billing is not arbitrary; the whole reason this show exists is as a star vehicle for him.

I never said it was arbitrary. Coulson is the reason that the spinoff exists. I never said other wise.

Meh 2 is our entry point into this universe, she even was the first voice we heard.

Doesn't prove anything.

Doesn't NOT prove anything. Listen, it's all opinion, we're not dealing in facts.

Jubilee was the entry point into the '90s X-Men series, and though the first voice we heard in that show's pilot was a newsreader, Jubilee was the first regular character we met. But she was far from the dominant member of the series that followed.

I didn't say dominant. I said lead.

Heck, the first line of Moby-Dick is "Call me Ishmael," but Ishmael is largely peripheral to the book's events.

...and I'm out.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't say dominant. I said lead.

I don't understand the distinction.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When Phil is revealed as a Life Model Decoy, the others are not going to follow him any more than they would a toaster.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

I'm hoping that either young attractive man spy or young attractive hacker girl are brutally killed later in the season and wake up in "Tahiti."

It's a magical place.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I didn't say dominant. I said lead.

I don't understand the distinction.

To me, a dominate character has a lot of power, and/or just takes over a scene. Like Hannibal Lector in Silence of the Lambs.

But, they may or may not be the lead, they may not even be in the show or film for very long.

But a lead character is the character who the majority of the story is about, and in a TV show, someone they are investing a lot of time and energy developing them as characters and their story.

It's true, Coulson doesn't need much because he's been in the movies, we understand his character, even though we don't actually know much about him. That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him. He's the leader of the missions.

Meh 1 and Meh 2, they are laying groundwork and sending signals, this is the romantic couple of the show, this is the main ongoing story of the show. Certainly the mystery of Meh 2.

That's why I do consider them leads. Certainly we can agree they are the romantic leads of the show.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When Fitz and Simmons do it, they dress up as Lord of the Rings characters.

 

[Professor Zoom]

When Fitz and Simmons do it, they dress up as Lord of the Rings characters.

When they do it, they do it by internet.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

"You made a mistake. You gave my team a chance to BOND!"

Uuuggggghhhh.

 

[Christopher]

But a lead character is the character who the majority of the story is about, and in a TV show, someone they are investing a lot of time and energy developing them as characters and their story.

It's true, Coulson doesn't need much because he's been in the movies, we understand his character, even though we don't actually know much about him. That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.

That's kind of like watching the first two episodes of Firefly and saying, "Beyond the mention of guys wearing blue gloves, there isn't a long-term story being developed for River." I'm sure they've only just begun to seed the clues for the long-term arc they have in mind, just as they've only begun to hint at Melinda's dark secret past, or at Ward's family history, or at the secret organization behind the Centipede experiments.

Meh 1 and Meh 2, they are laying groundwork and sending signals, this is the romantic couple of the show, this is the main ongoing story of the show. Certainly the mystery of Meh 2.

That's why I do consider them leads. Certainly we can agree they are the romantic leads of the show.

I will agree that Skye and Ward were, by that definition, the leads of the first two episodes. Given what we know about ensemble television in general and Whedon television in particular, it does not follow that the entire series will have the same unvarying emphasis. I expect all the characters to be given more or less equal focus over the course of the series, just not all at once.

 

[sojourner]

Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?

 

[Christopher]

Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?

That actually occurred to me this morning -- that after setting them up as an inseparable team, it would be effective drama to kill one of them off (Fitz, please, because Simmons is gorgeous and fun) and force the other one to cope with the loss.

 

[FPAlpha]

Anyone wanna place bets that one of the twins is a sacrifice character that will be killed off during the season?

That actually occurred to me this morning -- that after setting them up as an inseparable team, it would be effective drama to kill one of them off (Fitz, please, because Simmons is gorgeous and fun) and force the other one to cope with the loss.

I don't know if the show will follow the usual Whedon style at all.

Whedon is known for his dark moments at times.. killing off beloved characters suddenly, breaking apart couples (usually by killing one of them) and such, you all know the ones i'm talking about.

It's too early to get a true vibe from the show.. will it become a cookie cutter freak of the week show or will it become darker as time progresses. So far it's been pretty bland but it's way too early to really tell as they are still setting up the characters and exploring them and on top of that developing the bigger storyline.

One hint though was the mystery of Coulson's survival.. from what we've seen it may not be something funny but could turn up quite dark (in this vein, Christoper already mentioned it, Tahiti being a "magical place" is just too odd whenever the subject of Coulson's survial comes up and could be a keyphrase that has something to do with it).

I really hope the show develops and moves past the dumb teenage/young attractive adults CW type show that rely on the hotness of the actors rather than engaging storylines. It would be a shame to see such a tentpole show with the Whedon name attached to it to be the first show i actively don't care about that was developed by him.

 

[Professor Zoom]

But a lead character is the character who the majority of the story is about, and in a TV show, someone they are investing a lot of time and energy developing them as characters and their story.

It's true, Coulson doesn't need much because he's been in the movies, we understand his character, even though we don't actually know much about him. That said, in the two episodes--besides the mention of the magical Tahiti, there isn't a long term story being developed for him.

That's kind of like watching the first two episodes of Firefly and saying, "Beyond the mention of guys wearing blue gloves, there isn't a long-term story being developed for River." I'm sure they've only just begun to seed the clues for the long-term arc they have in mind, just as they've only begun to hint at Melinda's dark secret past, or at Ward's family history, or at the secret organization behind the Centipede experiments.

And see, I would say its clear in the pilot of Firefly there's going to be a long ongoing story about River. She arrives in a box, she's a mystery, her brother lied to get them on board. It's pretty clear River's story is pretty important right away.

Meh 2 and River are both mysteries. Who are they really?

 

[Christopher]

How is it not clear that the mystery of Coulson's survival is going to be an important arc? Not to mention May's backstory and the secret of why she walked away from combat missions? Those mysteries both feel to me like they're as important to the show as Skye's. This is what ensemble shows do. They have balls in the air for all the characters at once.

 

[The Old Mixer]

This scene didn't reveal anything new about the story we'd just seen or set up anything about future episodes. The only thing it revealed is "Sam Jackson is willing to do cameos." I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.

Perhaps they're just setting up that he can and will appear on the show, and will put him to better use later.

There are two reasons I can think of why Grant Ward is very much not James Bond:

1) He hasn't already slept with Skye and Simmons.

2) He tried to save the enemy soldier from being sucked out of the plane -- and he said under truth serum last week that he didn't feel good about the times he'd had to kill. Bond would've gladly pushed the soldier out of the plane and made a joke about it.

My statement was a bit hyperbolic. Obviously he isn't literally supposed to be James Bond under another name. He is the Bond-type solo troubleshooter/man of action type agent...just as May appears to have been such an agent in the past.

To me, his intro scene in the pilot fairly screamed Bond. Somebody upthread brought up the girl who was focused on for too long. My impression was that they were shooting that scene as if it were one scene in a Bond-style movie that got interrupted, and she was the girl he would've eventually been "pumping for information" later in the story, had that story continued.

1) Consider them his Moneypennys. Traditionally, there's a reason that Bond and Moneypenny don't shag...Bond actually draws a line at office romances (or respects the line that M has drawn). I'm sure you can bring up an exception or three in the films...so many creators, so many interpretations.

And I'd be surprised if Ward and Skye don't wind up becoming a couple at some point. But given that this is the very beginning of a TV series rather than a two-hour movie, they'll play out the "will they or won't they" angle.

2) As written by Fleming, Bond very much didn't enjoy killing. It was his job, but he didn't take pleasure in it. Think of Timothy Dalton (the actor who deliberately played it closest to Fleming) saying, "If [M] fires me, I'll thank him for it."

Also, this is an 8 p.m. network show that takes place in a superhero universe...under the same circumstances, even Bond would be going out of his way to save his enemies.

(At least you didn't go for the too-obvious "He's not British.")

Are Fitz and Simmons brother and sister or boyfriend and girlfriend?

I can just imagine the pillow talk....

I thought that sealing the hole in the plane with the life raft was iffy even as a stop-gap, but they sure weren't in any hurry to leave that compromised cabin once the crisis had passed.

At least they didn't use mashed potatoes....

Bringing the Peruvian soldiers aboard was an obvious security risk. It was disappointing that they were able to take over the plane so easily, and that no one really took precautions against that obvious possibility.

Very much agreed.

If SHIELD isn't tracking Skye's phone messages, they really are stupid.

Maybe they are....

"Hey, we've captured the plane, what should we do with these hostages... I know, let's put them together, with the ability to talk to each other... nothing possibly could go wrong there!"

They were together and not closely guarded because the idea was that they could all get dumped out the rear hatch at a moment's notice. And the hijackers were underestimating the team's abilities.

^ EDIT: great minds yada yada

I hope they do something to make Wendy and Marvin more interesting in future episodes.

Wendy and Marvin. Ha! Good one.

I've taken to thinking of them as the Hobbits....

Meh 2 is our entry point into this universe, she even was the first voice we heard.

I think the first voice we heard in this universe was Tony Stark's, if you don't count the singer from AC/DC.

When Phil is revealed as a Life Model Decoy, the others are not going to follow him any more than they would a toaster.

The question is, will Ward bash his head in with a flashlight...?

I really hope the show develops and moves past the dumb teenage/young attractive adults CW type show that rely on the hotness of the actors rather than engaging storylines.

It's already so much better than that crap, IMO. I stuck it out for Smallville way too long...if this had shown any signs of being that teen angsty crap, I wouldn't have finished the pilot.

 

[Admiral2]

So focus on Coulson and Ming-Na and ignore Things One And Two and the Wonder Twins. I've always found it easier to sit through a Joss Whedon series if I ignore about half the cast.

It would be easier to ignore if they just weren't there. And basically your advice is to ignore 50% of a show.

Or, Meh 1 and Meh 2 could've been better cast.

True, but since they weren't, and that's not changing any time soon, your choices are to compensate or stop wasting your time with the series.

And since I'm basically only watching the thing for Phil Coulson anyway, ignoring 50% of the cast isn't all that difficult for me.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I hope we run across other teams as the series progresses and see how Coulson's team interacts with them.

If we see a similar team, Coulson's counterpart has to be played by Jack Coleman!