Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[The Old Mixer]

BTW, to get a little drooly fanboy, Melinda May is HAWT...pushing my buttons in so many ways, I'd watch the show just for her.

And as I haven't seen anybody make the reference, I'll state what I'd been assuming was obvious about Ward...he's James Bond. Completely self-sufficient, action-oriented field agent who considers his teammates a liability to his operating style.

 

[Forbin]

Leonor Varela seemed a bit young for the character she was playing (well, she's 40, so not impossibly young), but she was awfully hot, so I'm willing to forgive it.

Oddly enough, she played a similar character in an episode of Human Target - ex-flame of the lead, they run into each other on a South Amercian caper, she's a hot military leader in sexy fatigues, they run thru the jungle a lot. She didn't betray mark Valley, though.

 

[Christopher]

^They worked it into the narrative frame, but it wasn't integral. There are plenty of examples of films that the protagonist narrates where we don't see him literally telling the story to another character at any point in the film (American Beauty, Spider-Man).

Even so, it revealed something new and surprising about the film we'd just seen. It added something and was satisfying as a result. This scene didn't reveal anything new about the story we'd just seen or set up anything about future episodes. The only thing it revealed is "Sam Jackson is willing to do cameos." I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.

Yes, we all get that it's a conditioned response of some kind. We got that from the moment he first said it.

Then I don't understand why you're arguing with me when that was my exact and entire point. And no, not everyone got that; when I suggested that last week, someone said they thought it was just a running gag (though that may have been on another BBS). My point -- on which you and I are in complete agreement -- is that the line's repetition here pretty much rules out the idea that it's just a meaningless gag.

However, there seemed to be something more in the way he said the afterlife line. There was a bit of sadness in the delivery. He may know more about what happened to him than the others think.

I think anyone who came that close to dying would have some strong and painful emotions about it in retrospect, regardless of the circumstances of their recovery.

So Skye fills in the companion's role in Doctor Who, acting as the audience's guide into the world of these secretive agents and serves as exposition, explain things to the audience.

That's a pretty widespread trope, an audience surrogate who's new to an organization so the viewers can learn along with them. Most screen adaptations of X-Men have started out from the perspective of a new recruit getting things explained to them -- Kitty Pryde in the '80s pilot, Jubilee in the '90s series, Wolverine and Rogue in the movies, Nightcrawler in X-Men Evolution.

Which kinda means that from a writer's perspective, she would never betray Shield... or at least this team of Shield agents.

I'm not sure why that would be the case. Once the need for the initial expository-audience-surrogate role has passed, they'd have to find something different to do with her.

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this but her hesitation at replying "I'm in." suggests she's decided to switch teams and the message serves to temporarily protect her new found Shield friends from whoever her master is.

The vibe I got is that she has divided loyalties... she's coming to identify with the new team, but she still has a loyalty to the Rising Tide and isn't ready to abandon that completely. Changing allegiance or views is rarely so simple as flipping a switch. And we saw here that she still believes strongly in the principles that Rising Tide represents. After all, it's not as if she's changed her beliefs. She's just come to see that SHIELD's methods aren't necessarily as much in conflict with her beliefs as she thought.

The message does imply that she intended to be recruited all along, that she set herself up to be brought in as a mole for RT, and that she's now succeeded in that goal. I have a bit of trouble believing that, though, since Coulson's attempt to recruit her was rather unconventional and difficult to predict.

And as I haven't seen anybody make the reference, I'll state what I'd been assuming was obvious about Ward...he's James Bond. Completely self-sufficient, action-oriented field agent who considers his teammates a liability to his operating style.

There are two reasons I can think of why Grant Ward is very much not James Bond:

1) He hasn't already slept with Skye and Simmons.

2) He tried to save the enemy soldier from being sucked out of the plane -- and he said under truth serum last week that he didn't feel good about the times he'd had to kill. Bond would've gladly pushed the soldier out of the plane and made a joke about it.

 

[Kirby]

I liked it better than the pilot, but Agent Ward still bothers me, the guy has no personality. I wonder if the Camilla Reyes character was named as a bit of a nod to Ming Na's Stargate character.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Even so, it revealed something new and surprising about the film we'd just seen. It added something and was satisfying as a result. This scene didn't reveal anything new about the story we'd just seen or set up anything about future episodes. The only thing it revealed is "Sam Jackson is willing to do cameos." I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.

It's probably easier to get Samuel L. Jackson for a two minute cameo than an entire episode. Not every scene has to be substantive, some can just be fun.

And no, not everyone got that; when I suggested that last week, someone said they thought it was just a running gag (though that may have been on another BBS).

I suggested it. I think it's clear by now that it's not a running gag, but I didn't think it was necessarily clear by last week.

 

[Christopher]

I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.

It's probably easier to get Samuel L. Jackson for a two minute cameo than an entire episode.

Not what I meant. Of course I meant a cameo, just one that means something, that isn't so labored and gratuitous.

Not every scene has to be substantive, some can just be fun.

But some kinds of fun are more satisfying than others. This was superficially fun, but it was also a huge anticlimax in more ways than one, and it just felt like going through the motions.

 

[Gaith]

But some kinds of fun are more satisfying than others. This was superficially fun, but it was also a huge anticlimax in more ways than one, and it just felt like going through the motions.

Nick Fury showing up in the flesh, so soon, after speculation he may just appear as a voice from a speaker at some point?! I thought it was pretty darned awesome, myself, and laughed out loud at the fish tank punchline. Could that be a TNG reference, or am I reading too much into things?

Again, a very fun ep so long as you don't think about it too much. (So the team can just grab any unidentified item from any country, no passports, no customs, no nothing? I guess that goes with the show's globe-trotting territory format...) I haven't watched a show as it aired since I left for boarding school and missed S3 of Enterprise. It's a weird old feeling!

 

[Kirby]

But some kinds of fun are more satisfying than others. This was superficially fun, but it was also a huge anticlimax in more ways than one, and it just felt like going through the motions.

I loved it, and if anything it further cements Fury into this 'television' world and it hints that we'll see him again. They didn't need to bring Colbie Smulders into the pilot either, they could have used any official-looking leader person, but the connection to the larger Marvel world helps give the tv show a little more cred. Besides, Jackson seems to love to play Fury, even if its only 30 seconds at a time like in Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, so why not do this every once in a while?

 

[Christopher]

Nick Fury showing up in the flesh, so soon, after speculation he may just appear as a voice from a speaker at some point?! I thought it was pretty darned awesome, myself, and laughed out loud at the fish tank punchline.

But that's just it. It had no significance beyond the metatextual. Take away the externals about hype and fan expectations and celebrity casting, look at it purely as a scene between characters in a story, and it's just empty fluff. I find it hard to believe that Fury would come out personally just to complain about the damage, or that he'd be that upset about it. It was just a pretext to have Jackson show up, and they could've come up with something better if they'd put more effort into it.

EDIT: I just saw a clip of the scene again, and maybe there's a bit more substance to it than I thought. In between Fury's rantings about the bar and the fish tank, there's a bit where he says to Coulson, "The girl -- she's a risk," and Coulson replies, "I know, sir." It's barely anything, but I guess it has some arc significance. And hopefully Fury's warning about having the authority to downgrade Coulson "to a Winnebago" will be more than just a throwaway line but a setup for the idea that the team is in a tenuous place authority-wise. So I guess I was too hard on it. Still, as MCU tag scenes go, it's not very high on the list.

 

[DarKush]

I liked the second episode better than the pilot, even without the cameo. The cameo was the icing on the cake. Before that, I liked the ramped up action, I liked how the team was learning to respect each other and work together. I particularly liked May, Chloe, and Ward this week.

My issues are that this threat seemed a bit minor to get the jump on them. I was hoping that these bad guys would actually be AIM or Hydra masquerading as Peruvian soldiers/police. I can't believe that this is SHIELD's best. I hope we run across other teams as the series progresses and see how Coulson's team interacts with them. Also, I wish they had explained the Captain America and tesseract references. I felt the writers were assuming that everyone who is watching this show has seen and/or remembers what happened in the Captain America movie. A quick recap of what and/or why the tesseract is so important would've helped.

 

[DarKush]

^ EDIT: great minds yada yada

I hope they do something to make Wendy and Marvin more interesting in future episodes.

Wendy and Marvin. Ha! Good one.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I have seen all the movies and even some of these references are lost on me.

While, it's true Sci-Fi and Fantasy often has characters referring to in universe details that are never explain, if it becomes all to frequent it's going to hurt the show. It's will be like the later Star Trek spinoffs were you needed to have previous fan knowledge to understand or care about the plots or even the basic premise.

 

[Borgminister]

Maybe I'll give it another chance, but it felt so contrived and unoriginal that I actually stopped watching about 15 minutes in and switched over to The Blacklist episode, which while not perfect, was at least not boring...

 

[Corran Horn]

I just think that if you're going to get Nick Fury in the show, it should be for something more substantive than this.

It's probably easier to get Samuel L. Jackson for a two minute cameo than an entire episode.

Not what I meant. Of course I meant a cameo, just one that means something, that isn't so labored and gratuitous.

Not every scene has to be substantive, some can just be fun.

But some kinds of fun are more satisfying than others. This was superficially fun, but it was also a huge anticlimax in more ways than one, and it just felt like going through the motions.

I confess I don't know how these things work w/ scheduling and writing, but I'm wondering if they had to make the scene general enough that it would still work if they changed things either in this episode or subsequent episodes. You can't give SLJ some meat in the tag if you don't know what the meat of the series is yet. As you've said below "The girl is a risk" is really the only substantive thing in it--and that is general enough to cover a hazy future, I suppose.

 

[Gaith]

^ beat me to it somewhat.

It was just a pretext to have Jackson show up, and they could've come up with something better if they'd put more effort into it.

Well, we don't exactly know what the scheduling logistics were like, do we? Maybe Jackson was filming Cap 2 scenes next door a few months back, and this was the only thing they were ready to script and shoot on short notice.

 

[Christopher]

I confess I don't know how these things work w/ scheduling and writing, but I'm wondering if they had to make the scene general enough that it would still work if they changed things either in this episode or subsequent episodes.

No; Fury specifically said that it only took Coulson six days to get the Bus wrecked. And the dialogue about "the girl" (Skye) being a risk is not a conversation that Fury would've put off until later, I think. So it could only have gone with this episode.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are Fitz and Simmons brother and sister or boyfriend and girlfriend?

 

[Corran Horn]

I confess I don't know how these things work w/ scheduling and writing, but I'm wondering if they had to make the scene general enough that it would still work if they changed things either in this episode or subsequent episodes.

No; Fury specifically said that it only took Coulson six days to get the Bus wrecked. And the dialogue about "the girl" (Skye) being a risk is not a conversation that Fury would've put off until later, I think. So it could only have gone with this episode.

No, I didn't mean the scene had to be portable to go behind other episodes, what I meant was having Fury bring up a key point to a future episode might be a problem if they decided later to change that future episode.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I enjoyed "0-8-4" a lot. The Fury cameo was fun, but I was hoping for something a little more ominous or foreshadow-y.

ETA: One nit-- I thought that sealing the hole in the plane with the life raft was iffy even as a stop-gap, but they sure weren't in any hurry to leave that compromised cabin once the crisis had passed.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

My thoughts:

Bringing the Peruvian soldiers aboard was an obvious security risk. It was disappointing that they were able to take over the plane so easily, and that no one really took precautions against that obvious possibility.

If Coulson has superpowers (and he knows it), it's interesting that he didn't choose to use them. Maybe he really thought his team had good chances. Maybe he wanted to give his team a chance to bond together, which brings me to...

If SHIELD isn't tracking Skye's phone messages, they really are stupid. Even if they can't hack her encryption, and are letting her keep her phone as a symbol of trust, a concealed camera looking over her shoulder would be enough to at least take screen shots of her texts.