Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Confirmed.

[F. King Daniel]

Last video that came up in my YouTube recommendations was about how SNW is a sign that both discovery and Picard have failed.

I don't think the word "failed" means what they think it means.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Ah, Star Trek fandom, where moving forward means telling the same stories in the exact same setting and with largely the same group of characters (because we don't need fleshed out characters, we need positions in a crew to be filled in), only with a different - but not too different - aesthetics. See, the Enterprise-H, which is naturally the biggest, strongest and fastest ship in the entire fleet, has ablative armor generators instead of deflector shields, chroniton torpedoes instead of quantum torpedoes and its phasers are Type XXIV instead of XII like in the 2370s. The middle-aged white human Captain wears green instead of red, the Starfleet Delta on his combadge is now sideways and his rank pips are rectangular instead of circular, not to mention that they're worn on the right breast instead of the collar. Also, there is a Cardassian on the bridge and the backlit computer graphics now feature hexagonal designs next to their random numbers. See? Totally different, Star Trek has moved forward!

What a beautiful example of a repetitive epic. Garak would be an instant fan.

To be honest, Discovery has already made me interested in an era that I hadn't really cared about before (pre-TOS 23rd century) in its first season, and the addition of Pike, Spock, Number One and the Big E in the second one has only served to make me want more of it. They were all great characters played by great performers, I've found the Enterprise to have been beautifully updated as well, so it's natural I'd love to see their adventures. I was overjoyed to hear the confirmation that just because Discovery left for the future, the 23rd century won't be forgotten for long.

So new ships and new crew are repetitive because they resemble the old crews too much but a show that seems almost entirely based on milking the past by basing it's stories around Spock, section 31, the mirror universe, the original Enterprise, the Klingons and Harry Mudd is all new and amazing

 

[SJGardner]

So new ships and new crew are repetitive because they resemble the old crews too much but a show that seems almost entirely based on milking the past by basing it's stories around Spock, section 31, the mirror universe, the original Enterprise, the Klingons and Harry Mudd is all new and amazing

Of course. Telling a different story with similar elements but a different format and focus is indeed more original than telling the same story in the same way with aesthetically different trappings.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Of course. Telling a different story with similar elements but a different format and focus is indeed more original than telling the same story in the same way with aesthetically different trappings.

Which part of the DIS story was wildly different? I love that it moved Trek fully to season arcs but it's really not that much a departure from old Trek

At least DS9, ENT and VOY gave us some new bad guys despite the latter 2 chickening out a little and adding the Borg and stuff

 

[Noname Given]

Because of course, when two TV shows fail, the next obvious step is to do another spin-off. But then, I suppose that does track with Midnight's Edge's logic.

That's another three spin-offs, thank you.

 

[Lord Garth]

So new ships and new crew are repetitive because they resemble the old crews too much but a show that seems almost entirely based on milking the past by basing it's stories around Spock, section 31, the mirror universe, the original Enterprise, the Klingons and Harry Mudd is all new and amazing

"Entirely"? That's an exaggeration. Don't forget about Burnham, Saru, Stamets, Culber, Tilly, and Georgiou.

Don't forget about the Ba'ul, Control (whether you like Control or not), and -- to an extent -- the Mycellial Network in Season 2 (where they don't understand what's going on). But Control is the major one. At least for Season 2.

I'm not in the mood go to into much more. My first time posting in over a day. Circumstances in Real Life going on and I'm stupidly using here as a distraction. But I figured I'd put that out there.

 

[fireproof78]

Don't forget about the Ba'ul, Control (whether you like Control or not), and -- to an extent -- the Mycellial Network in Season 2 (where they don't understand what's going on). But Control is the major one. At least for Season 2.

I have been revisiting Season 2 and I love how alien the Ba'ul and the Mycelial Network felt. Truly interesting science fiction.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

With how pedantic most of Trek fandom is and the often total refusal to accept real world reasons for production and stylistic changes, i can't see this idea as being anything other than total nightmare.

"But...teh Primeline has been raped"....not to mention my childhood memories and whatnot.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

"Entirely"? That's an exaggeration. Don't forget about Burnham, Saru, Stamets, Culber, Tilly, and Georgiou.

Don't forget about the Ba'ul, Control (whether you like Control or not), and -- to an extent -- the Mycellial Network in Season 2 (where they don't understand what's going on). But Control is the major one. At least for Season 2.

I'm not in the mood go to into much more. My first time posting in over a day. Circumstances in Real Life going on and I'm stupidly using here as a distraction. But I figured I'd put that out there.

Control cant exist without S31. But Im not looking to argue the pros and cons of DIS with you again Garth I just thought that the earlier post from SJ was full of contradiction and peddling this silly theory that all anti DIS feeling is the work of gatekeeping incels or somethin

 

[Lord Garth]

Control cant exist without S31. But Im not looking to argue the pros and cons of DIS with you again Garth I just thought that the earlier post from SJ was full of contradiction and peddling this silly theory that all anti DIS feeling is the work of gatekeeping incels or somethin

Well, you're in luck. I don't feel up to it today, even if I wanted to. A friend of mine was arrested last night for no reason, just in the wrong place at the wrong time because of all this nonsense going on.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Well, you're in luck. I don't feel up to it today, even if I wanted to. A friend of mine was arrested last night for no reason, just in the wrong place at the wrong time because of all this nonsense going on.

Thats awful man hope he comes out of it unhurt.
All those videos of unprovoked pepper sprays and pointblank rubber bullet shots is sickening

 

[SJGardner]

Which part of the DIS story was wildly different?

I never used the words 'wildly different.' I used 'more original'. The fact is, Voyager and Enterprise were more or less variations of the same TNG formula, which is why many fans felt by the end that the franchise has become stale, unoriginal and repetitive. Most of Voyager's or Enterprise's sci-fi high-concept episodes could've been told as TNG stories with simply changing the names of the characters and some technobabble.

Discovery's entire first season was basically the serialized redemption story of a single main character against the backdrop of her relationship to well-known figures, and I don't think Star Trek has ever done that before. I think the only Discovery episode that could be described as "Discovery does [insert Trek episode here]" could be Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad which quite some people keep criticizing as an unimaginative rehash of Cause and Effect. I won't start quote digging, but I've seen dozens of posts on this very site whose writers explained at length and painstaking attention to detail how their main reason for DSC not feeling like Star Trek wasn't the themes or the design but rather how it avoided the 'formula' of self-contained, high-concept, allegorical sci-fi ensemble stories with morality play.

peddling this silly theory that all anti DIS feeling is the work of gatekeeping incels or somethin

Again, that's not what I said, but I apologize if it came through that way. English as a second language and a penchant for not proofreading don't go well together. What I meant was that only in the Star Trek fandom could the umpteenth rehash of a formula that had become stale and repetitive twenty years ago be construed as 'moving forward' simply because its story goes forward chronologically. But just because I find this characteristic of our fandom, I don't think all hardcore fans think this way or this alone explains every criticism of DSC. Not to mention these opinions have been here in the fandom for at least the last twenty years... I've heard the same 'not moving forward' criticism about Enterprise and the Kelvinverse as well.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I never used the words 'wildly different.' I used 'more original'. The fact is, Voyager and Enterprise were more or less variations of the same TNG formula, which is why many fans felt by the end that the franchise has become stale, unoriginal and repetitive. Most of Voyager's or Enterprise's sci-fi high-concept episodes could've been told as TNG stories with simply changing the names of the characters and some technobabble.

Discovery's entire first season was basically the serialized redemption story of a single main character against the backdrop of her relationship to well-known figures, and I don't think Star Trek has ever done that before. I think the only Discovery episode that could be described as "Discovery does [insert Trek episode here]" could be Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad which quite some people keep criticizing as an unimaginative rehash of Cause and Effect. I won't start quote digging, but I've seen dozens of posts on this very site whose writers explained at length and painstaking attention to detail how their main reason for DSC not feeling like Star Trek wasn't the themes or the design but rather how it avoided the 'formula' of self-contained, high-concept, allegorical sci-fi ensemble stories with morality play.


Again, that's not what I said, but I apologize if it came through that way. English as a second language and a penchant for not proofreading don't go well together. What I meant was that only in the Star Trek fandom could the umpteenth rehash of a formula that had become stale and repetitive twenty years ago be construed as 'moving forward' simply because its story goes forward chronologically. But just because I find this characteristic of our fandom, I don't think all hardcore fans think this way or this alone explains every criticism of DSC. Not to mention these opinions have been here in the fandom for at least the last twenty years... I've heard the same 'not moving forward' criticism about Enterprise and the Kelvinverse as well.

Hard to disagree with any of this. VOY and ENT were stale by the end bothaboth didn't see that TV had moved on and both share a criticism I have of DIS too where they fall back too much on nostalgia aliens/characters rather than double down on their own thing like DS9 did later on but I do love the season arc method but would also prefer it to be in a show about a shiny new ship and crew post VOY as what I want most of all from Trek is to keep up on how the universe is doing so the prequel and Kelvin stuff ain't for me.
As for crazy not my Trek Fans frompfrom way back pop overtover the TNG forum as someone has dug up a 1980s newspaper article ripping into TNG

 

[fireproof78]

Discovery's entire first season was basically the serialized redemption story of a single main character against the backdrop of her relationship to well-known figures, and I don't think Star Trek has ever done that before. I think the only Discovery episode that could be described as "Discovery does [insert Trek episode here]" could be Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad which quite some people keep criticizing as an unimaginative rehash of Cause and Effect. I won't start quote digging, but I've seen dozens of posts on this very site whose writers explained at length and painstaking attention to detail how their main reason for DSC not feeling like Star Trek wasn't the themes or the design but rather how it avoided the 'formula' of self-contained, high-concept, allegorical sci-fi ensemble stories with morality play.

I agree and I appreciate the nuance (yes, it is there) of different character interactions. Discovery may struggle but I cannot help but revisit and see all the various bits of details woven throughout in each rewatch.

I don't think it is quite like anything come before, and despite relying on familiar characters, it explores them in ways that I really enjoyed.

 

[Lord Garth]

Thats awful man hope he comes out of it unhurt.
All those videos of unprovoked pepper sprays and pointblank rubber bullet shots is sickening

Just found out: he's out now. Thank God.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled Arguing About Discovery.

 

[The Wormhole]

Don't forget about the Ba'ul, Control (whether you like Control or not), and -- to an extent -- the Mycellial Network in Season 2 (where they don't understand what's going on). But Control is the major one. At least for Season 2.

Control in fact originates from the novels. https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Control

Granted, there were many changes made for the show, but the basic idea is superficially similar.

 

[Lord Garth]

Control in fact originates from the novels. https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Control

Granted, there were many changes made for the show, but the basic idea is superficially similar.

New for TV. I don't read the novels. Nothing against them, but I keep never getting around to it.

 

[Lord Garth]

Anyway, during the first two seasons, DSC would've been stuck in a Catch-22 as a prequel:

"We want new enemies!"
Alex Kurtzman gives them new enemies...
"Why didn't we hear about them in TOS or the other series?!"

All those problems that DSC has left behind with the time-jump will be inherited by SNW.

 

[fireproof78]

Anyway, during the first two seasons, DSC would've been stuck in a Catch-22 as a prequel:

"We want new enemies!"
Alex Kurtzman gives them new enemies...
"Why didn't we hear about them in TOS or the other series?!"

All those problems that DSC has left behind with the time-jump will be inherited by SNW.

And then some.

"Why is Pike so happy? He should be depressed all the time like in "The Cage!"

 

[Orphalesion]

And then some.

"Why is Pike so happy? He should be depressed all the time like in "The Cage!"

Just wait till SNW comes out and it isn't exactly 100% like "The Cage"