So new ships and new crew are repetitive because they resemble the old crews too much but a show that seems almost entirely based on milking the past by basing it's stories around Spock, section 31, the mirror universe, the original Enterprise, the Klingons and Harry Mudd is all new and amazing
Of course. Telling a different story with similar elements but a different format and focus is indeed more original than telling the same story in the same way with aesthetically different trappings.
Which part of the DIS story was wildly different? I love that it moved Trek fully to season arcs but it's really not that much a departure from old Trek At least DS9, ENT and VOY gave us some new bad guys despite the latter 2 chickening out a little and adding the Borg and stuff
"Entirely"? That's an exaggeration. Don't forget about Burnham, Saru, Stamets, Culber, Tilly, and Georgiou. Don't forget about the Ba'ul, Control (whether you like Control or not), and -- to an extent -- the Mycellial Network in Season 2 (where they don't understand what's going on). But Control is the major one. At least for Season 2. I'm not in the mood go to into much more. My first time posting in over a day. Circumstances in Real Life going on and I'm stupidly using here as a distraction. But I figured I'd put that out there.
I have been revisiting Season 2 and I love how alien the Ba'ul and the Mycelial Network felt. Truly interesting science fiction.
Control cant exist without S31. But Im not looking to argue the pros and cons of DIS with you again Garth I just thought that the earlier post from SJ was full of contradiction and peddling this silly theory that all anti DIS feeling is the work of gatekeeping incels or somethin
Well, you're in luck. I don't feel up to it today, even if I wanted to. A friend of mine was arrested last night for no reason, just in the wrong place at the wrong time because of all this nonsense going on.
Thats awful man hope he comes out of it unhurt. All those videos of unprovoked pepper sprays and pointblank rubber bullet shots is sickening
I never used the words 'wildly different.' I used 'more original'. The fact is, Voyager and Enterprise were more or less variations of the same TNG formula, which is why many fans felt by the end that the franchise has become stale, unoriginal and repetitive. Most of Voyager's or Enterprise's sci-fi high-concept episodes could've been told as TNG stories with simply changing the names of the characters and some technobabble. Discovery's entire first season was basically the serialized redemption story of a single main character against the backdrop of her relationship to well-known figures, and I don't think Star Trek has ever done that before. I think the only Discovery episode that could be described as "Discovery does [insert Trek episode here]" could be Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad which quite some people keep criticizing as an unimaginative rehash of Cause and Effect. I won't start quote digging, but I've seen dozens of posts on this very site whose writers explained at length and painstaking attention to detail how their main reason for DSC not feeling like Star Trek wasn't the themes or the design but rather how it avoided the 'formula' of self-contained, high-concept, allegorical sci-fi ensemble stories with morality play. Again, that's not what I said, but I apologize if it came through that way. English as a second language and a penchant for not proofreading don't go well together. What I meant was that only in the Star Trek fandom could the umpteenth rehash of a formula that had become stale and repetitive twenty years ago be construed as 'moving forward' simply because its story goes forward chronologically. But just because I find this characteristic of our fandom, I don't think all hardcore fans think this way or this alone explains every criticism of DSC. Not to mention these opinions have been here in the fandom for at least the last twenty years... I've heard the same 'not moving forward' criticism about Enterprise and the Kelvinverse as well.
Hard to disagree with any of this. VOY and ENT were stale by the end bothaboth didn't see that TV had moved on and both share a criticism I have of DIS too where they fall back too much on nostalgia aliens/characters rather than double down on their own thing like DS9 did later on but I do love the season arc method but would also prefer it to be in a show about a shiny new ship and crew post VOY as what I want most of all from Trek is to keep up on how the universe is doing so the prequel and Kelvin stuff ain't for me. As for crazy not my Trek Fans frompfrom way back pop overtover the TNG forum as someone has dug up a 1980s newspaper article ripping into TNG
I agree and I appreciate the nuance (yes, it is there) of different character interactions. Discovery may struggle but I cannot help but revisit and see all the various bits of details woven throughout in each rewatch. I don't think it is quite like anything come before, and despite relying on familiar characters, it explores them in ways that I really enjoyed.
Just found out: he's out now. Thank God. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled Arguing About Discovery.
Control in fact originates from the novels. https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Control Granted, there were many changes made for the show, but the basic idea is superficially similar.
Anyway, during the first two seasons, DSC would've been stuck in a Catch-22 as a prequel: "We want new enemies!" Alex Kurtzman gives them new enemies... "Why didn't we hear about them in TOS or the other series?!" All those problems that DSC has left behind with the time-jump will be inherited by SNW.