Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[TheFlutteringHorde]

Maybe it's just me but it still doesn't seem like Pike and Kirk know one another that well? That could change this season or in the next two I guess but Kirk's appearances so far haven't had them interacting directly that much.

 

[Donald G]

The line "His presence there AND in the shuttlecraft was an illusion" implies he was swapped out before they got in the shuttle - while still on Enterprise. That only muddies the water even more for me now. [Grumble]

No, it does no such thing because that's not how conversational English works. (It's also not how formal written English works, either.)There is no implication concerning the sequential order of events conveyed in that sentence.

 

[cooleddie74]

I stole Fizzy Lifting Food Cubes.

 

[Dar70]

Nothing in Kirk's dialog or reactions imply he's unfamiliar with Pike. When I ask if someone knows a person, if they say yes I don't give them a physical description of that person. They're usually one offer additional details to make sure we're talking about the same person, not me.

And as noted Kirk refers to Pike as "Chris" for most of the episode. Which implies a much more familiar relation than one between two people who met once.

Well maybe he was describing him for the benefit of Mccoy. I don't know. But I have seen writing like that from a lot of shows and films of the time. At any rate it's not like the newer shows are doing any better.

 

[eschaton]

Well said! I’m right there with you. When Strange New Worlds was first announced, that opening salvo of information included the creators talking up aims for character-centric serialization amid mainly-episodic plots. It sounded instantly appealing to me, but I didn’t know quite how that would look.

DS9 is a good shout. That’s such a solid comparison, and it’s rad that SNW has nailed it.

Now, if only it got more episodes… the ceaseless curse of the streaming era, alas.

I'll say that I've yet to see true long-form arc serialization pulled off properly on a single live-action sci-fi/fantasy series which isn't based upon a series of existing books. I'm not saying it can't be done, but we've not seen anything like Breaking Bad or The Wire in the genre space, and likely never will, since we're past peak TV.

In the absence of that, I think it's a big step forward that the writer's room for SNW convenes at the end of each season and seems to say "how can we build on what happened before?" Instead of doing what DIS and PIC did, and just ignoring the earlier seasons entirely.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even TOS acknowledged the previous seasons, albeit infrequently with only widely scattered continuity references to earlier episodes and adventures. SNW would be smart to build on what's already in place and not dramatically reboot things to Square One with the start of each new season with some giant new cosmic threat or mystery.

 

[Dar70]

Even TOS acknowledged the previous seasons, albeit infrequently with only widely scattered continuity references to earlier episodes and adventures. SNW would be smart to build on what's already in place and not dramatically reboot things to Square One with the start of each new season with some giant new cosmic threat or mystery.

That's all I wanted. Was a show that was a bit more original , all new characters (except those seen in the menagerie) But this just feels like they are trying to make it more like TOS without Kirk and instead Pike.and then continually bringing up stuff from TOS. I thought non arc based would benefit this show. But sadly I was wrong.

To this day I still think the best scripted Trek ever was DS9. I so wish we had gotten something on that level with SNW. I just don't feel it now..maybe I will be proven wrong with the last couple dozen episodes. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[fireproof78]

Even TOS acknowledged the previous seasons, albeit infrequently with only widely scattered continuity references to earlier episodes and adventures. SNW would be smart to build on what's already in place and not dramatically reboot things to Square One with the start of each new season with some giant new cosmic threat or mystery.

They seem to be doing just fine.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's kind of a dumb scene, since Kirk clearly has met Pike and would know what he looks like. There's no reason for Mendez to describe Pike to Kirk.

In "The Menagerie", Mendez would not know just how well Kirk knew Pike, hence a common leaning toward a when referencing something in a casual manner. Mendez was a man, not Data.

And of course Mendez saying he's Kirk's age is absurd. Spock served with Pike thirteen years prior, when Pike was Captain of the Enterprise. If he's Kirk's age then he was captain around the age of 22. Jeff Hunter doesn't look 22 in "The Cage."

"About your age" is yet another common form of recognition. For example, someone who is 45 years old could be said to be "about" the age of someone who is 31, as they are in the same generation (a generation can span as munch as 15 years apart, so this is not a stretch). The line works because its the way people speak in a common, casual manner.

Mendez is a flag officer at a Starbase on the edge of Federation space. I wouldn't expect him to know the life histories of either man outside of the public record.

Exactly. As noted bove, he's a man, not a machine, and he has his own universe of position responsibilities and a personal life to deal with, so he's not sitting around like someone obsessively reading Memory Alpha for character bios, etc.

 

[Noname Given]

All this arguments about what Mendez said about Pike are funny. It's been a while since I watched that episode, but wasn't Mendez an illusion created by Talosians and not a real person? lol

Only from the point he was with Kirk in the Shuttlecraft on. He was the 'real thing' on the Starbase.

 

[MrShinzoff]

I would love for the Borg to appear in SNW just to watch the absolute meltdown from the continuityphiles.

 

[fireproof78]

The Borg suck and don't need to ever appear again.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well, Kirk showed zero interest in riding horses until Generations, where he was basically playing an idealized version of Shatner than Kirk.

Other than apparently 'bedding' alien women every chance he got and the Enterprise herself, TOS Kirk never really mentioned having any hobbies.
Of course with a few fans current thinking, 'omission' is apparently the only canon source that counts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Other than apparently 'bedding' alien women every chance he got and the Enterprise herself, TOS Kirk never really mentioned having any hobbies.
Of course with a few fans current thinking, 'omission' is apparently the only canon source that counts.

He sometimes likes history.

 

[DaveyNY]

But this just feels like they are trying to make it more like TOS without Kirk and instead Pike.and then continually bringing up stuff from TOS

????
It was created to be a prelude (albeit a very short prelude) to the TOS Era.
Why on Earth wouldn't They include stuff coming up from just a few years time.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Borg suck and don't need to ever appear again.

There hasn't been a truly good Borg episode of Trek since 2003. I could stand to see them disappear.

 

[Jayson1]

"Captain. Their is a cloaked ship sending us a audio only message." Pike curiously says 'Play it LT Uhura."Uhura replies "Yes Sir. Captain they are also using audio mixers to hide the sound of their voice for some reason" Pike nods 'Very Well."

"We are, nevermind who we are. You will be assimilated. Resistance is Futile." The Borg message states.

Pike "Never will happen. If you would like though you could come over. I could cook you a nice meal. " Una speaks "He really is a good cook." Their is a pause. "Food is relevant. Resistance is... ohh nevermind. WE just realized we got the wrong Enterprise. We are suppose to be dealing with a bald captain. After scanning the ship we can certainly tell that is not you, Captain Pike."

You see a ripple in space that indicates the Borg ship just warped away. Spock speaks "What could they possible be talking about? It is not logical. A Enterprise with a bald Captain?" "Come on Spock. Think about it. Isn't clear as day? "Ortegas says. Spock looks confused" Ortegas shakes her head "These aliens clearly wanted to speak to a Enterprise Captain they know is bald. They must think Admiral April was still in charge"

Pike smiles "Erica that makes perfect sense. Shame we will never know for sure. Maybe someday this mystery will be answered but it won't be today." He says. The crew all laugh hysterically at Pike's joke except Spock who simply raises a eyebrow.

 

[Dukhat]

Other than apparently 'bedding' alien women every chance he got and the Enterprise herself, TOS Kirk never really mentioned having any hobbies.
Of course with a few fans current thinking, 'omission' is apparently the only canon source that counts.

It’s not so much ‘omission’ as it is ‘actor’s interests bleeding into the character.’ Like when Picard suddenly had an interest of driving fast and dangerous jeeps when he showed zero interest in that in over ten years that we got to know his character, because Stewart likes driving fast cars. I guess archaeology (which the character was very much into) got boring.

 

[137th Gebirg]

No, it does no such thing because that's not how conversational English works. (It's also not how formal written English works, either.)There is no implication concerning the sequential order of events conveyed in that sentence.

It's not conversational English. Nobody actually talks like that. It's scripted English, and Roddenberry-Trek has always tried to elevate its dialogue above contemporary speech to give it a futuristic flare. TNG was especially renowned for this with Brent Spiner and Patrick Stewart frequently commenting on its usage.

Star Wars had it too. In fact, Harrison Ford was so frustrated with how Lucas wrote his lines in ANH, he went so far as saying, "You can write this shit, George, but you can't say it!" or something like that.

So yeah, it is a confusing way of saying it, implying that Mendez got swapped out sooner than the shuttle. Agree to disagree if you like, but you can't tell someone else they're not allowed to be confused about a certain line of somewhat ambiguously-written dialogue because reasons.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It’s not so much ‘omission’ as it is ‘actor’s interests bleeding into the character.’ Like when Picard suddenly had an interest of driving fast and dangerous jeeps when he showed zero interest in that in over ten years that we got to know his character, because Stewart likes driving fast cars. I guess archaeology (which the character was very much into) got boring.

Is that the real reason we got the Argo Dune Buggy in ST:NEM?

To satiate Patrick Stewart's love of driving fast?