Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[SJGardner]

When people will find out that the mycelial forest can bring people back from the dead... It will like the countless other miraculous ways of becoming immortal that have been shown in the franchise... IE swept under the rug and never spoken of ever again!

I'm still hoping for an episode to show the secret Section 31 vault where all these forgotten classified technologies are kept in locked containers. Last time I've heard, the flashdrive with Control's remains was placed right on top of the the crate containing Ark of the Covenant.

 

[Discofan]

I'm still hoping for an episode to show the secret Section 31 vault where all these forgotten classified technologies are kept in locked containers. Last time I've heard, the flashdrive with Control's remains was placed right on top of the the crate containing Ark of the Covenant.

Not to mention the little gizmo that gives Spock a new sibling/girlfriend each time you press it.

BTW, I've noticed five or six people who recognize the black badge without explanation. It's funny when you know that Sisko didn't even know they existed less than a century later.

 

[SJGardner]

Not to mention the little gizmo that gives Spock a new sibling/girlfriend each time you press it.

It looks like Jim didn't know it had a girlfriend setting, otherwise he would've been extra furious at Spock for never telling him where he kept it.

 

[JD]

I just realized I never posted my thought about the finale.
I loved it, it had some of the best action ever in Trek, and it also managed to work in some nice emotional stuff with the end Spock and Micheal.
The Inception style fitght in the spinning hall was pretty cool.
Defeating Control by magnifying the floor in the Spore Drive cage thing was surprisingly easy, but at least it had already been established as possible, so it wasn't a total asspull.
Really enjoyed Micheal and Spock's farewell.
The whole end with Spock swearing to never talk about Micheal, and Discovery and everything about it being classified was a bit goofy, but it at least it was a simple way to just explain why we never heard about them before. Honestly, I think I'm happier with that than I would have been if if they came up with some weird way to make everyone forget them or wipe them from existence.
Really sad to see Cornwell go, I liked her.
I can't wait to see where things go now that the show will, apparently permanently, be jumping 950 years into the future.

 

[Discofan]

...
Really sad to see Cornwell go, I liked her.
...

We never saw her counterpart in the Mirror Universe, maybe she's still there.

 

[BillJ]

Anyone notice they flubbed the stardates? "The Vulcan Hello" was 1207.3, the last episode we heard stardates during Burnham's trips through time that ran in the 10's.

 

[BillJ]

Honestly, I think I'm happier with that than I would have been if if they came up with some weird way to make everyone forget them or wipe them from existence.

I think the more poignant way would've been to wipe them from the timeline, with only Spock remembering them and their sacrifice.

 

[Gonzo]

I think the more poignant way would've been to wipe them from the timeline, with only Spock remembering them and their sacrifice.

It would have been the clean and tidy way of doing it but they clearly have other ideas.

They could have still existed in the future as well due to the presence of the time stone on board.

We are going to have to wait quite a while to find out.

 

[BillJ]

They could have still existed in the future as well due to the presence of the time stone on board.

The character would've still existed, just the timeline would've been rewritten. They would continue on in the 32nd/33rd century.

 

[Gonzo]

The character would've still existed, just the timeline would've been rewritten. They would continue on in the 32nd/33rd century.

Burnham would as she is in the suit but they would have had to come up with a way to keep the Discovery in place, when you start undoing the past the knock on effects as the changes move forward can end up being far more extensive than you expect.

Its very tricky, the first hard point of such a reset would be the probes attack on the shuttle, no AI/Control in the future or the past would have considerable implications, it would mean there was no need for Dr Burnham to take the actions she did in the future which would mean no opportunity for Burnham to direct the Discovery towards the places of interest we visited as she would never use the suit.

Which means no Kaminar, no saving the Kelpiens from the Ba'ul, no Reno and come to think of it no need for Pike or the Enterprise to be in the show at all, what we saw at the end of the season 1 finale with Pike showing up would never have happened.

This is the problem when time is brought into it, Mirror Universe and alternate realities arent too difficult to navigate but you start wiping out entities in the present that existed and took actions in the future that affected the past and you are asking for trouble.

 

[Alan Roi]

I think the more poignant way would've been to wipe them from the timeline, with only Spock remembering them and their sacrifice.

I wouldn't consider it poignant at all. In any way. IMO, that's just the wet dream of those people who've wanted the show in general and a certain character not to exist from be beginning. Some people may think Discovery has weak writing, but wishing this sort of thing is wishing the worst writing choice imaginable, IMO.

The Orville decided to pull an 'it was just a dream' sotry this with their last episode and all it did was remind me that show is a fanfiction vanity project of MacFarlane's like a column of fanfic turtles all the way down, IMO. Which was too bad, because there were actually some, IMO, good eps in that knockoff this year.

 

[BillJ]

I wouldn't consider it poignant at all. In any way. IMO, that's just the wet dream of those people who've wanted the show in general and a certain character not to exist from be beginning. Some people may think Discovery has weak writing, but wishing this sort of thing is wishing the worst writing choice imaginable, IMO.

The “never ever mention them again” is a far bigger disservice to the characters. It is essentially saying they simply aren’t important enough to bother with again in the 23rd century.

 

[Alan Roi]

The “never ever mention them again” is a far bigger disservice to the characters. It is essentially saying they simply aren’t important enough to bother with again in the 23rd century.

Or some of us with a knowledge of history can just say, OK, this is like the Philadelphia Experiment, and that like many things that Starfleet doesn't want to talk about, it is classified to the point that not a lot of people talk about it. Even the idea of turning the series into 'a dream Spock once had' is truly revolting to me as that sort of thing would be with regards to any series I watch. There is a reason this kind of story telling doesn't get published.

Honestly, I don't see the wish of the events of the first two seasons to become wiped from the timeline as any different from the wish for Discovery to be 'struck from canon'.

 

[BillJ]

Even the idea of turning the series into 'a dream Spock once had'...

What I said doesn’t do that. The Discovery still exists, the crew still exists from their perspective.

 

[Alan Roi]

What I said doesn’t do that. The Discovery still exists, the crew still exists from their perspective.

IMO, this idea is all about attempting appeasing the 'struck from canon' crowd, the 'This is Not Star Trek' crowd and the people who've always wanted Burnham to have never existed. It not anything other than that. Guess what, that sort of thing hasn't worked in the past, doesn't work in the present and it won't work in the future.

 

[BillJ]

IMO, this idea is all about appeasing the 'struck from canon' crowd, the 'This is Not Star Trek' crowd and the people who've always wanted Burnham to have never existed. It not anything other than that.

Which goes to show how little you know about me.

 

[Alan Roi]

Which goes to show how little you know about me.

Intent is often different than perceived result, I will agree. But in the end, its the result that is of more consequence.

 

[SJGardner]

BTW, I've noticed five or six people who recognize the black badge without explanation. It's funny when you know that Sisko didn't even know they existed less than a century later.

I know not many people agree with me on this, but I don't think 5-6 people recognizing black badges should be such a big deal. If I remember correctly, all people we've seen with knowledge of Section 31 have been either Starfleet officers (I'm not even sure we've seen enlisted crewmembers recognize them) or high-level Starfleet diplomats and their immediate next of kin. I definitely don't think this is a critical mass that would inevitably lead to Section 31 being common knowledge. The civilian prisoner who pointed the black badges out in Context is for Kings obviously didn't know what they meant. However, it does raise the question many have pointed out before on why they even need identifiable black badges in the first place.

But it ultimately doesn't matter even if Section 31 was commonly known in the mid-23rd century. After the whole unpleasantness with Control, they'll obviously have to retreat into the shadows and with most of their equipment, infrastructure and personnel being gone, they'll have to rebuild everything from scratch. If most data on them is purged and classified, then one hundred years is a long enough time for them to descend into obscurity. How many people today do have a working knowledge of turn-of-the-century state security organizations that weren't even classified? How many people know today who the Okhrana, the Evidenzbureau or Room 39 were?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Maybe the whole Control fiasco is how they become a more covert in the shadows kind of organization.

 

[SJGardner]

Maybe the whole Control fiasco is how they become a more covert in the shadows kind of organization.

Especially if Starfleet uses them as a convenient scapegoat to explain whatever the public learned about Control. Something's bound to get out to the press.