Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

[USS Firefly]

Erm... sorry - no clue what this means? Forgot the.. what?

And -it's nice to be nice.

QT

My apologies.
Apparently the smilies don't work on my mobiele phone. I meant to have a wink smilie at the end of my sentences.

 

[USS Firefly]

And Saavik before that. And T'Pau. And Sybok. And probably more.

And Valeris

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Didn't know that, but in Encounter at Farpoint they sure seemed like they are experiencing this for the first time.

Think of "Encounter At Farpoint" as having the crew experience a new and better holodeck. Like an old CRT TV versus a new 4K HDR set.

This is a reasonable argument to 'explain away' the contradiction, but it just seems to me like holodecks shouldn't have been in this show.

It's the same thing.

The complete environment is a simulation and disappeared when the program was deactivated.

It's exactly a holodeck.

Part of what was specifically cited as distinguishing the NCC-1701-D's holodeck in "Encounter at Farpoint" is that the complete environment is not a simulation, in its entirety. The rocks and vegetation and water (remember Wesley's puddle in the corridor) seem so real to Riker because, as Data explains, they are real, created physically (I presume "fresher than farm fresh" but not alive in the case of the plants) by transporter/replicator technology, in seamless concert with the projected holographic elements.

It's not a contradiction that needs to be explained away. Nowhere in Encounter at Farpoint did they say that holodecks were brand new. Riker simply says that he is surprised at how real the simulation is.

This whole "No holodecks before TNG" thing is the same as "Spock was the only Vulcan in Starfleet".

Unlike that canard, it does at least have a basis on something actually stated in an aired episode: in "Flashback" (VGR), in context of a conversation about how different Starfleet was in the 23rd century, Harry Kim mentioned that there were "no holodecks" (or replicators). But it's also amply clear that holograms and holo-simulations (and molecular synthesizers that dispense variously food and clothing via matter-energy conversion) existed. So, a holodeck (like a replicator) is a specific type of advanced, versatile shipboard facility that integrates and expands upon a variety of functions previously served by separate devices/facilities, and performs at least some of them up to standards that 24th century characters perceive and describe as qualitatively beyond what those precursors were capable of. To them, it's decidedly not "the same thing."

The holosuites on DS9 are not fully proper holodecks either, and don't get called that. This little exchange from "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" illustrates the linguistic distinction, and nicely makes it clear in doing so that this isn't merely a proprietary name of Quarks' (even though he's the only game in town on the station):

SOLOK: I need use of a holosuite. The T'Kumbra holodecks are currently under repair.
SISKO: To arrange holosuite time you have to go through Quark. He owns the only ones on the station.

Indeed, ENT is fairly surprising in not showing any sort of 3D projection technology in use by the heroes. Perhaps the writers were afraid of the sort of backlash the holograms of DSC are getting here?

Timo Saloniemi

They visited a ship with a holoroom, I don't think they had one. (The episode where Trip gets pregnant)

While they didn't have a dedicated immersive holographic facility, they did have holo-emitters and used them to create limited holographic elements for target practice and combat simulations—the same (and thus far only seen) purpose of the DSC facility itself—in episodes including "Sleeping Dogs" and "Harbinger" and maybe one or two others.

 

[Refuge]

From Merriam-webster.com (emphasis mine)

This is bothering you?
So hunter and gatherer man is now an agriculturist? You've gone from hunter gatherer to agriculturist. Tell me when an animal gets its prey is he a scientist too?

 

[Refuge]

Please...I beg you...stop talking about whether or not science is "gud" or "TEH sux".

Oh okay, apparently every thing is science anyway. Except Vulcans or war mongers ..

 

[Turtletrekker]

This is bothering you?
So hunter and gatherer man is now an agriculturist? You've gone from hunter gatherer to agriculturist. Tell me when an animal gets its prey is he a scientist too?

Wow. Just... wow.

In the real world, I'm less bothered than you are by the fact that people are calling you out for being wrong.

G'bye!

 

[Refuge]

G'bye!

I'm not wrong

 

[Guy Gardener]

The dumber you are the more like science dumb shit is.

 

[Refuge]

Indeed science often is used to embrace dumb shit but it sounds good

 

[Turtletrekker]

You're talking about religion.

 

[cultcross]

Refuge, you can discuss the philosophy of science elsewhere. This thread is about the Discovery episode "Lethe". Can we get it back on track please?

 

[Refuge]

Refuge, you can discuss the philosophy of science elsewhere. This thread is about the Discovery episode "Lethe". Can we get it back on track please?

No worries. I won't contribute more on the subject.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I wonder if Cornwall considered entering into the peace summit in bad faith?

There was nothing much to stop her, from giving a "Vulcan Hello".

Actually...

Have we met the house of Duras yet?

They will side with aliens against their own people.

The house of Duras has no honour.

 

[Refuge]

You know the trap was laid, amongst other things. If Sarek was able he would have gone to talks and been ambushed like Cornwall was.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know the trap was laid, amongst other things. If Sarek was able he would have gone to talks and been ambushed like Cornwall was.

Sarek's advice in the pilot was to murder as many Klingon's as possible, or they will never respect you.

It's way more likely that Sarek would have went there to kill Klingons than it ever would have been than Katrina was bring back scalps.

It's a little out of character.

 

[Refuge]

Sarek going to randomly kill Klingons.. good plan, lol.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Shouldn't the Boy Bomb have waited till the meeting with the Klingons started?

 

[Refuge]

It's hard to keep up with the Vulcan double cross, the Klingon 'gotcha' and the Starfleet dummy move.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Vulcan blood looked like green poster paint.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Sarek's advice in the pilot was to murder as many Klingon's as possible, or they will never respect you.

It's way more likely that Sarek would have went there to kill Klingons than it ever would have been than Katrina was bring back scalps.

It's a little out of character.

Sarek didn't advise anything, though. He merely related the historical facts that Burnham asked for and immediately followed them with a warning not to act rashly which Burnham ignored.

Plus, the Vulcan Hello worked for the vulcans by preventing a war - at this point, the war is already here, so continuing to follow that path would be functionally no different to the Klingons than just fighting the war. A useless tactic.