Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

[Vger23]

Oh yeah, I hated Picard when I first saw farpoint too, and liked Riker... how things change indeed

Perhaps I'll change my mind about Disco characters in a couple of years time too. Though I actually quite like all of them so far. Only Landry who ever really grated me (in both episodes, so I was glad she bit the dust wirh her Darwin Award death in ep4).

I do not believe Landry was intended to be "likable."

 

[eschaton]

I also faithfully watched every single episode of VOY for seven long years, hoping that it would get better at some point. It didn't.

I don't give shows that kind of chance anymore.

I've been slowly rewatching all of Trek in rough canon order for around a year and a half now, which means I'm mixing in DS9 and VOY at the moment (heading into the back side of Season 6/4 respectively). I now remember why I had such a hard time getting into the show when it was on the air. I honestly find it harder to care about than even ENT, which after two years of suckage at least decided to do something different.

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

8160-ish people dead in the first 6 days, that Burnham knew about. The total deathcount on the Federation side.

7 months on, knowing Klingons are well inside Federation space and attacking ships and colonies means probably many more thousands dead.

There's a brutal war happening and we're given no real sign of it. And one that's shaping the entire quadrant and known to everyone including civilians, that we never heard about in TOS at all. With Kirk acting like war with the Klingons in Errand of Mercy was unheard of in his career.

Which is why I am wondering if there'll be Big Reset Button at the end of the season. The implications of what they are laying out appear to be inconsistent with what we know in TOS. Seems like the Federation-Klingon War should have been an epochal event, on the level of WWII. And yet...not much evidence of that, given what we know of TOS.

Now, of course there's lots we didn't see in TOS. Many, many days of talking, conversations that didn't appear in the show. It's plausible that nearly all of the talk about the war occurred during that "down time" that wasn't recorded in the series. Plausible, but not likely.

So, Big Reset Button is a potential. But it's also possible it'll just be hand-waved. Wouldn't be the first--and won't be the last--detail that's less-than-elucidated in Trek history.

 

[indranee]

Why do we need characters in a drama/show to be "likeable" to like them as interesting people to watch? It's not like we're gonna be having beers with them or hire them as babysitters, right?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why do we need characters in a drama/show to be "likeable" to like them as interesting people to watch? It's not like we're gonna be having beers with them or hire them as babysitters, right?

Tilly probably was a babysitter...on second thought, I think that's what she's doing with Burnham.

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

Why do we need characters in a drama/show to be "likeable" to like them as interesting people to watch? It's not like we're gonna be having beers with them or hire them as babysitters, right?

Well, there's "likable" in the sense that "I like to follow this character and I'm vested in what happens to him/her" and then there's "likable" as in "I like this person." The first one is probably something you want if you want to enjoy a show.

But, to a certain extent, this is an ensemble cast and if there are so many characters that are not "likeable" in the first sense of the term, then it's really hard to enjoy it. I suppose you could have a cast that's wholly unlikable and yet you still follow the show--for me, Voyager and Enterprise came close to that--but that's probably a rarity.

Then again, we're all human and a lot of us have sunk-cost bias written all over us. "It'll get better, next season..." ;-)

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

Tilly probably was a babysitter...on second thought, I think that's what she's doing with Burnham.

Well, for a guy who's as meticulous as Lorca is...do you not think he's thought out the angles of what it would take to rehabilitate her? Why not start with a young, impressionable, naïve cadet who no one could possibly dislike...?

And if you think commanders don't do that...they do. I presumed for Day One that Lorca knew exactly what he was doing when he assigned Burnham to Tilly's room. It gives Michael a chance to mentor an impressionable cadet and gives Tilly a chance to both see what a relatively seasoned officer is like and, more importantly, as an exemplar of what not to do with a promising career.

 

[Mudd]

Why do we need characters in a drama/show to be "likeable" to like them as interesting people to watch? It's not like we're gonna be having beers with them or hire them as babysitters, right?

Because we could be watching people we like instead.

 

[indranee]

Because we could be watching people we like instead.

But Dennis, don't you think that's boring?

 

[indranee]

Well, there's "likable" in the sense that "I like to follow this character and I'm vested in what happens to him/her" and then there's "likable" as in "I like this person." The first one is probably something you want if you want to enjoy a show.

But, to a certain extent, this is an ensemble cast and if there are so many characters that are not "likeable" in the first sense of the term, then it's really hard to enjoy it. I suppose you could have a cast that's wholly unlikable and yet you still follow the show--for me, Voyager and Enterprise came close to that--but that's probably a rarity.

Then again, we're all human and a lot of us have sunk-cost bias written all over us. "It'll get better, next season..." ;-)

I frankly find likeable characters kinda boring. I like characters like Lorca and Saru. They keep me engaged.

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

I frankly find likeable characters kinda boring. I like characters like Lorca and Saru. They keep me engaged.

I find Lorca the most likable of the bunch, so... ;-)

 

[Guy Gardener]

So you don't think scientists, professionals, or people in military-like organizations curse?

There's probably a demerit system, or pushups.

I want to see Tilly doing a hundred pushups.

Nothing sexual, it just gets funny watching people swear about how difficult pushups are after the first 70, and then she gets another 100 push ups for swearing.



See!

Funny.

 

[Mudd]

But Dennis, don't you think that's boring?

Why?

 

[indranee]

Why?

because it's very one note.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Watching it right now. I'm not a continuity hawk, but I really don't like there being a holodeck here. That should be newish technology in 2364.

There doesn't need to be perfect technological continuity but this is a pretty blatant departure, and particularly it's one that became the biggest writer's crutch of the 24th century shows, so it stands out more.

 

[indranee]

Watching it right now. I'm not a continuity hawk, but I really don't like there being a holodeck here. That should be newish technology in 2364.

1) it's not exactly a holodeck.
2) there was one in TAS.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

1) it's not exactly a holodeck.
2) there was one in TAS.

Didn't know that, but in Encounter at Farpoint they sure seemed like they are experiencing this for the first time.

 

[HGN2001]

Didn't know that, but in Encounter at Farpoint they sure seemed like they are experiencing this for the first time.

Think of "Encounter At Farpoint" as having the crew experience a new and better holodeck. Like an old CRT TV versus a new 4K HDR set.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Think of "Encounter At Farpoint" as having the crew experience a new and better holodeck. Like an old CRT TV versus a new 4K HDR set.

This is a reasonable argument to 'explain away' the contradiction, but it just seems to me like holodecks shouldn't have been in this show.

Isn't 'logic extremist' an oxymoron? It's like saying 'Unitarian Jihad' or 'Libertarian police state'.

I suppose it's no different than humans who kill in the name of a man who championed love and forgiveness, but again, just seems spiritually against how Vulcans are supposed to be.

 

[indranee]

It's not a holodeck.