Just as Sherlock Holmes was defined by Conan Doyle.
Star Trek is the source. Everything after is an expansion / adaptation.
But as with Sherlock Holmes, the lore is part of the fun. Ask that Wrath of Khan director fellow.
Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident
- Thread starter CorporalCaptain
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Star Trek is the source. Everything after is an expansion / adaptation.
But as with Sherlock Holmes, the lore is part of the fun. Ask that Wrath of Khan director fellow.
I mean - old Leonard Nimoy has appeared in all 3 continuities now - and Micheal Burnham thought he looks like an old Ethan Peckk, Chris Pine thinks he's an old Zachary Quinto - and Picard recognized him as Mark Lenard's son.
At some point we just need to accept that Hogwarts can completely change its layout and rooms in-between movies, and still be the same place.
Any reimagining will always look different. But any reference for nostalgia's sake will always show the original.
At some point we just need to accept that Hogwarts can completely change its layout and rooms in-between movies, and still be the same place.
Any reimagining will always look different. But any reference for nostalgia's sake will always show the original.
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What???? Ovation's examples existed side by side in the same continuity.
Yes, your scenario is plausible. However, the writers are not creating plausibility. They are creating drama to catch ratings. WE think differently than they do. They just HAD to hinge Pike's decision on making it a choice between Spock and himself. Frankly I think this is dumb and not very dramatic and poor craftsmanship. Spock believes now that his "mission" to Romulus is more important than anything, which, frankly it is not. The future does not work that way. Spock's mission to Romulus literally blows up in his face. It's like that joke that you go to hell and there are three rooms and you have to choose one to spend eternity in? It's like that.
If Pike's future can be changed, so can Spock's. What this show needs is a metaphysician to help them. Frankly they need a spiritualist or a white witch to show them how to program the universe to manifest what they want. That is the power of our minds, but I digress.
This leads me to take another look at Pelia. She makes a stunning comment that she thinks perhaps United Earth's socialist utopia may just be a fad. Pelia is another Guinan type character or perhaps a Q. If she's immortal then she can do pretty much what she wants with little consequence which is kinda interesting. Is Pelia there because of the continuum shift that I am convinced happened when La'an went into the past. It seems a trope, but Star Trek seems to shift continuum whenever someone time travels, and every series has had a time travel episode. I can't wait for the Mirror Universe.
That's a load of nonsense.
It was a joke.
Where did you get that from?
La'an doesn't know what a Romulan looks like. All she's seen is a Romulan altered to look Human.
That was talking about her ears.
Yes? But she doesn't know what Romulan ears look like.
And Alt!Kirk and Sera never said how much was changed outside of that.
BTW this is actually my main problem with the new Design: It looks like one of those amalgam pictures, where you put all the James Bond/Batman actors together and get one "blended" version of them all.
It lacks it's own identity that the original (and IMO even the JJprise to a degree) clearly had.
In direct contrast to the new shuttle design - which is very clearly inspired by the original 60s version, but also absolutely a new and unique design.
So? What reference point (pun not intended) would La'an have for a Romulan's ears? That was for the audience.
The Discoprise is a reverse design. It’s designed to look more in-line with the Connie refit instead of something that the Connie refit evolved from.
Disagree.
I meant in terms of preserving visually what was established before.
The SNW Enterprise is a modification that came after decades of revisions and tinkering... but still doesn't mean its part of the same universe.
Exactly.
And while I have no particular issues with SNW Enterprise being more in line with TMP Refit, the problem is that visually, the two ships are quite dissimilar compared to TOS version and it would make more sense to put SNW/Disco into their own separate universe... similar to the Prime, but with some differences (similar enough where major events would be the same or very similar, but different enough where the 31st century for example of the Prime Universe would happen nothing like we saw in Disco).
That way we bypass the visual inconsistencies and lack of DOT's (apart from in PIC s3 where we saw the Titan using them, but the UFP by that time even if they didn't have DOT's probaly would have had them - and it would also explain lack of seeing them in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY - yes yes I know, visuals and budgets got better and all, and in TNG it was established the ship can clean itself - which can also be done with a combo of internal tractor beams and transporters for instance - but on the flipside, one could say that we never saw them in the 24th century because there was no need to show them, but they were there in the background - although, Prodigy never featured DOT's).
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Where's John Ford when you need him?
If it were up to me, I'd say that one or more of the 24 different Klingon Houses established in DSC were the smooth headed Klingons we saw on TOS. Heck, if you want, you could even say that the lighter-skinned Captain Koloth was from a different House than the darker-skinned Kor and Kang. Or that STVI's General Chang and his aides were yet another House. 24 Houses is probably enough to explain all the Klingon variations we've gotten over the years.
And yet Richard Arnold also wanted to make Michael Jan Friedman rewrite half of his TOS novel Double, Double to remove Chekov rather than just say, "Hey Mike, can you change this Stardate? Chekov shouldn't be on board the ship yet."
Talk about trying to have it both ways!The Saavik in my headcanon looks and acts like Kirstie Alley. I very pointedly did not use any pictures of the Robin Curtis version in my Star Trek Timeline.
With Ziyal, the makeup was so heavy and the character was so minor I honestly don't think it made a difference.
...I had no idea that this existed.Nah, I'd rather just say TMP was a fictional recreation of TOS.
I can't imagine Jess Bush's Chapel ever morphing into the whiny doormat that Majel Barrett played. And for my money, that's a good thing.
It's all part of the same "Prime" continuity as long as the producers say it is.And yet, ST: ENT did in fact honor TOS by introducing the TOS designed USS Defiant in the Mirror Universe.
We also saw that the USS Defiant in STiscovery S2 was different (on the schematics) than the constitution class from TOS, and when TNG had Scotty show up, in the holodeck, they recreated the TOS Ent bridge.
DS9 also when going to the past in Trials and Tribble-ations, referenced the TOS design (externally and internally).
If you ask me, there IS a pattern to the Prime Universe continuity... and SNW/Disco don't seem to be a part of it.
I get where you're coming from, but artistic style or not, it creates a rather large discontinuity (visually).
It would be like seeing a remake of ST:VOY, TNG or even DS9 today.
Some similarities would be there obviously, but in terms of visual changes and most other stories, they would vastly differ (as such, there would be no way to reconcile it by saying its all in the same universe - unless more temporal changes have been done to the timeline - but then Disco arrived and introduced the Burn, along with the post temporal wars Temporal Accords which prevent changes to the timestream - and that doesn't mesh obviously - since changing TOS to such a large extent would obviously create a big impact).
With inclusion of PIC S3 Fleet Museum TOS Connie, the evidence points to the premise that SNW/Disco could in fact be part of an alternate universe where various events share similarities with the Prime Timeline, but are otherwise different... and this in turn also creates a distinct 31st century with very little tech progression along with the Burn we saw in Disco S3... but otherwise, these events are probably NOT due to occur in the actual Prime Timeline 31st century because they don't seem to be a part of it.
The upcoming crossover between Lower Decks and SNW could say that SNW/Disco is part of the prime timeline, but it could also indicate its not (despite various events being similar/same).
Why does it seem like everything goes back to people disliking Discovery or the choices the show made?
It's hardly my favourite series, not by a long shot. And I've made it clear on many occasions that I'm no fan of what they present as the distant future. That said, what's done is done and it's up to fans to either learn to live with it, or walk away.
I try to focus on the things I do like, and I go from there. Usually finding a way to like a show well enough. Crying about decisions made by those in power will get you no where.
It reminds me of the camp of Star Wars fans who seem to hope that Disney will suddenly embrace their beliefs for what the franchise "should" have done, and erase the sequel trilogy from existence.
As my dear old Grandpa used to say... Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.
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Well, in my point of view, SNW and TOS can't be inside the same universe. It is impossible to do. As the history of both stories are already different. The SNW follow Star Trek First Contact and Star Trek Enterprise, which is already different to the history of what TOS claimed, long time ago.
So unless you erase Star Trek Enterprise and Star Trek First Contact as canon prior to SNW, and SNW follow the same history as TOS, then it is impossible for both of them to be inside the same universe. Maybe they are similar, but not the same. The universe of TOS is already long gone. Even SNW Season 2 Episode 3 confirm that.With the Romulan Spy said about what her doing since 1992.
So what about Pike? Well, Pike's fate in SNW is the continuity of Star Trek Discovery rather than what happen to his TOS fate. Although they're similar to each other.
So my theory is that SNW and TOS are inside different universe, although both of them follow the same path in many events and history. But even if they're similar, they're different.
So unless you erase Star Trek Enterprise and Star Trek First Contact as canon prior to SNW, and SNW follow the same history as TOS, then it is impossible for both of them to be inside the same universe. Maybe they are similar, but not the same. The universe of TOS is already long gone. Even SNW Season 2 Episode 3 confirm that.With the Romulan Spy said about what her doing since 1992.
So what about Pike? Well, Pike's fate in SNW is the continuity of Star Trek Discovery rather than what happen to his TOS fate. Although they're similar to each other.
So my theory is that SNW and TOS are inside different universe, although both of them follow the same path in many events and history. But even if they're similar, they're different.
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