Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

[Noname Given]

That was talking about her ears.

the Romulan said she had problems getting used to the ears. Please show me in the episode where she mentioned Romulans have ears that look exactly like Vulcan ears. The only thing La'an could infer from that comment was that romulans don't look like humans. And even if La'an saw the green blood, somehow I don't think only Vulcans have green blood. La'an like every other Star Fleet officer who served the board of Starship is probably seen plenty of non-human looking aliens with green blood and non-human looking ears.

 

[JamesRye]

So having watched the latest episode, It's an alternate timeline now, right?....right?

Cos I watched TOS and TWOK and I know when the Eugenics wars were.

Or is there no Prime timeline any more? Does interference from temporal agents retroactively negate TOS, TNG etc ......

It would explain a lot.

 

[Noname Given]

So having watched the latest episode, It's an alternate timeline now, right?....right?

Cos I watched TOS and TWOK and I know when the Eugenics wars were.

Or is there no Prime timeline any more? Does interference from temporal agents retroactively negate TOS, TNG etc ......

It would explain a lot.

Considering Star Trek Voyager's S2 Futures End which took place in 1996 and showed an Earth, and not a war ravaged Wasteland where whole populations had been bond out of existence; I'm amazed you just now posit the idea that the prime Star Trek timeline no longer exists.

Then there's Star Trek First Contact, and ENT S2 Regeneration which both contradict what was shown in TNG S2 Q Who, where data flatly tells Picard that the Federation has never encountered cybernetic organisms like the Borg before: and then there's Anika Hanson's (aka 7 of 9) parents, two Federation scientists who are following a borg Cube 20 years before the events depicted in TNG Q Who...

Yet only now after this particular Star Trek franchise episode, you're ready to declare the Prime Yniverse timeline dead...

(And believe me there are plenty more examples from the Berman era of Trek, but I think the point has been made.)

 

[The Wormhole]

That was talking about her ears.

Oh, shit, what? La'an now knows Romulans are supposed to have different ears than humans? Well, this changes everything. Broken Canon! Alternate timeline! Gene's Vision in ruins! Think of the children!!!!

Do you even hear yourself right now?

 

[HotRod]

Yet only now after this particular Star Trek franchise episode, you're ready to declare the Prime Yniverse timeline dead...

Selective outrage at its finest. Don't like something? Declare that it can't be canon!

 

[Tuskin38]

The SNW follow Star Trek First Contact and Star Trek Enterprise, which is already different to the history of what TOS claimed, long time ago.

It is?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

ENT S2 Regeneration which both contradict what was shown in TNG S2 Q Who, where data flatly tells Picard that the Federation has never encountered cybernetic organisms like the Borg before

"Regeneration" took place before the Federation ever existed.

And even so, it doesn't contradict history, it confirms it. Meaning: It's a closed loop. IIRC, the Borg in that episode send a signal aimed at the general area of System J-25 - which is where "Q Who" takes place. Meaning: The Borg in "Q Who" are alerted to the existence of the Federation BY the Borg in "Regeneration". Again, closed loop.

and then there's Anika Hanson's (aka 7 of 9) parents, two Federation scientists who are following a borg Cube 20 years before the events depicted in TNG Q Who...

No evidence the Hansens were acting on the Federation's behest. I find it more likely they were Section 31.

 

[JamesRye]

Considering Star Trek Voyager's S2 Futures End which took place in 1996 and showed an Earth, and not a war ravaged Wasteland where whole populations had been bond out of existence; I'm amazed you just now posit the idea that the prime Star Trek timeline no longer exists.

Then there's Star Trek First Contact, and ENT S2 Regeneration which both contradict what was shown in TNG S2 Q Who, where data flatly tells Picard that the Federation has never encountered cybernetic organisms like the Borg before: and then there's Anika Hanson's (aka 7 of 9) parents, two Federation scientists who are following a borg Cube 20 years before the events depicted in TNG Q Who...

Yet only now after this particular Star Trek franchise episode, you're ready to declare the Prime Yniverse timeline dead...

(And believe me there are plenty more examples from the Berman era of Trek, but I think the point has been made.)

Point well made indeed. There's fan theories to explain it all away, but yeah, you have to tie yourself in knots to do so.

Maybe Star Trek isn't the history of the future after all.

 

[Tuskin38]

No evidence the Hansens were acting on the Federation's behest. I find it more likely they were Section 31.

They were civilian scientists investigating rumours in the beta quadrant. Nothing implies S31.

Maybe Star Trek isn't the history of the future after all.

It never was.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They were civilian scientists investigating rumours in the beta quadrant. Nothing implies S31.

Perhaps not. But they were definitely not following Federation orders. Whoever - if anyone - was pulling their strings, it wasn't the Federation. So Data's claim is still valid.

 

[The Wormhole]

But they were definitely not following Federation orders. Whoever - if anyone - was pulling their strings, it wasn't the Federation.

Eh? Seven's dad noted in his log they had the full blessing of the Federation Council, or at least the Exobiology Council.

MAGNUS [OC]: Field notes, U.S.S. Raven, Stardate 32611.4. It's about time. The Federation Council on Exobiology has given us final approval. Starfleet's still concerned about security issues but they've agreed not to stand in our way. We've said our goodbyes, and we're ready to start chasing our theories about the Borg.

So, according to your logic, they're not following Federation orders, even though they have approval from the Federation's Exobiology Council, and this must automatically mean Section 31?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps after the loss of the Raven, its records and reports were sealed?

 

[Ovation]

Maybe Star Trek isn't the history of the future after all.

Truer words have rarely, if ever, been uttered.

 

[The Wormhole]

Perhaps after the loss of the Raven, its records and reports were sealed?

Based on what?

 

[Nerys Myk]

It is?

To be fair, TOS couldn't even get its own "history" right.

 

[Brainsucker]

It is?

Yes, it is.

in TOS, Eugenic War happen in 1992 - 1995, in SNW, Eugenic War happen much-much later. Even both war happen because of Khan, but the key actors in the war is definitely different. For example, the President of United States of America will be different. The victims of war also different. The change of date alone already capable to cause of massive butterfly effect, because the people who supposed to be died in TOS Eugenic War are different to the people will died in SNW Eugenic War.

So, it is impossible for TOS and SNW to have the same history, thus both of them happen in different universe / reality.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, it is.

in TOS, Eugenic War happen in 1992 - 1995, in SNW, Eugenic War happen much-much later. Even both war happen because of Khan, but the key actors in the war is definitely different. For example, the President of United States of America will be different. The victims of war also different. The change of date alone already capable to cause of massive butterfly effect, because the people who supposed to be died in TOS Eugenic War are different to the people will died in SNW Eugenic War.

So, it is impossible for TOS and SNW to have the same history, thus both of them happen in different universe / reality.

Nope. Rewatch the episode

 

[Yistaan]

Yes, it is.

in TOS, Eugenic War happen in 1992 - 1995, in SNW, Eugenic War happen much-much later. Even both war happen because of Khan, but the key actors in the war is definitely different. For example, the President of United States of America will be different. The victims of war also different. The change of date alone already capable to cause of massive butterfly effect, because the people who supposed to be died in TOS Eugenic War are different to the people will died in SNW Eugenic War.

So, it is impossible for TOS and SNW to have the same history, thus both of them happen in different universe / reality.

Akiva Goldsman said that Pike's speech in the series premiere confirms that even then the Eugenics Wars had already been moved past the 1990s: "This is a correction. Because otherwise, it’s silly, or Star Trek ceases to be in our universe…By the way, this happened in Season 1, so this is not a Season 2 [issue]. It’s a pilot issue." - https://trekmovie.com/2023/07/01/st...plains-shows-correction-to-star-trek-history/

So basically, La'an ALWAYS was a descendant of 2022 Khan, and the time hiccup in S2 was just the Toronto destruction happening to 2022 Khan was what caused the shift to alt-Kirk's universe. And that's why she didn't disappear at the end of the episode.

The question now is if TOS Spock had a crewmate named La'an during his service with Pike and the improbability of this being genetically the same person. At best case if La'an existed in the original TOS past she'd be decades older due to her ancestor Khan existing at least 30 years earlier.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The question now is if TOS Spock had a crewmate named La'an during his service with Pike and the improbability of this being genetically the same person. At best case if La'an existed in the original TOS past she'd be decades older due to her ancestor Khan existing at least 30 years earlier.

I don't think so.

 

[Brainsucker]

The question now is if TOS Spock had a crewmate named La'an during his service with Pike and the improbability of this being genetically the same person. At best case if La'an existed in the original TOS past she'd be decades older due to her ancestor Khan existing at least 30 years earlier.

Or she may be a very different person.

For example, Admiral Robert April. We all see that he's a different person from the Robert April of previous version of Star Trek. Well, it is understand-able, because the Eugenic War happen in a different time, then the victims could also be different.

For example, what happen if one of the original April's grandma was killed in SNW Eugenic War. Then his grandpa married an African Origin Female, who maybe the descendant of a person who should died in TOS version Eugenic War. Then, even if he has the same name of Robert April, and come from the same of April family, he can be a very different person from the original.