Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident
- Thread starter CorporalCaptain
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You are ignoring that fact that almost all of the innovations we now have came about because of the war, not in spite of it.
The tension that built up to WWII was because of WWI, it would still have spilled over long before the 1950's.
And as I said earlier, Khan as depicted in Trek is a Fixed Point in Time, he can be slightly delayed but not eliminated.
Just like WWII, he was inevitable.
no it wasn't
Uh, acrtually, yes it was.
The Romulan agent Sera said that she arrived in 1992 to stop Khan. Entire temporal wars have been fought over delaying these events. So yeah, that's proof.
The showrunners didn't simply say that the Eugenics Wars were delayed. They specifically said HOW and WHY they were delayed. And did it in-universe to boot.
The showrunners didn't simply say that the Eugenics Wars were delayed. They specifically said HOW and WHY they were delayed. And did it in-universe to boot.
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Thank you, you articulated it better than I could, I wasn't keen on @Kzinti pulling the rolling eye emoji on me either and didn't want to reply myself since I'd probably be ruder than is proper.
Temporal Investigations have wildly double standards or they change their standards. Because they were throwing a fit over the very minor changes that the Defiant crew made to the Trouble with Tribbles, but they're suddenly fine with massively altering the timing of a global war by 4 decades.
I wonder if this alteration either led to less deaths in the global war or some other positive outcome they were willing to tolerate?
Meh. Clearly new management.
So, TI Agents are just like Star Fleet Captains when it comes to the Prime Directive...got it.
Admittedly this new timeline explanation is rather convenient. TOS, TAS, and TOS movies has established that speeds are a lot faster than the max warp speed set by the TNG scale, with 'That Which Survives' showing 990 light years made in 11.5 hours, going to the galactic barrier, and getting to the center of the galaxy (once in TAS and again in Trek 5), with no explanation of why warp was suddenly slower from TNG onward (most glaringly with Voyager obviously). With the new timeline showing that everything in TOS/TAS/TOS movies happened in broad strokes and dialogue there only applied to the old timeline, I can pretend that the Eugenics War delay somehow had a negative impact on warp engine research and speeds never got any faster than TNG speeds (we'll just have to assume now in TOS that they used subspace corridors, wormholes, etc. to get to places like the galactic barrier and the galactic core).
Heck, the SS Valiant getting to the galactic barrier in 2065 is probably part of the old timeline where Zefram Cochrane was a genius who built a massively more powerful warp engine than even the Vulcans had. In the new current timeline, the trauma of the Eugenics Wars AND WW3 happening in Zefram's lifetime was too much and turned him into First Contact's drunk who could barely get his ship into the atmosphere, and the much slower TNG warp scale is a butterfly effect from that.
Heck, the SS Valiant getting to the galactic barrier in 2065 is probably part of the old timeline where Zefram Cochrane was a genius who built a massively more powerful warp engine than even the Vulcans had. In the new current timeline, the trauma of the Eugenics Wars AND WW3 happening in Zefram's lifetime was too much and turned him into First Contact's drunk who could barely get his ship into the atmosphere, and the much slower TNG warp scale is a butterfly effect from that.
SNIP!
You are assuming that purposely preventing WW2 by one faction would not have another faction purposely starting WW2 later on, thus allowing the timeline to flow as "normal". Yes, history wouldn't be exactly as it was, but the details maybe the only thing that is different.
People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.
Debates about whether Trek is "our" future date to almost the beginning of the franchise. I'm pretty sure there was some 70s or 80s comic book where Kirk and Spock go back in time to the 20th century and literally see Star Trek tv show/movie posters and meet Star Trek fans.
Spock and Kirk are on a mission to ensure that some 20th century atrocity happens to preserve their timeline (not unlike La'an letting Khan live this week) and when the Trekkies who've been following Kirk and Spock after seeing them find out about their mission, they attack Kirk and Spock in horror and rage. The story is resolved in that the past the Enteprise crew went back to was a parallel universe entirely (thus the existence of Star Trek as a fictional tv show) and they realize they don't have to ensure this atrocity happens in this timeline and they go home.
Update: It's this comic https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Getting_Real
Spock and Kirk are on a mission to ensure that some 20th century atrocity happens to preserve their timeline (not unlike La'an letting Khan live this week) and when the Trekkies who've been following Kirk and Spock after seeing them find out about their mission, they attack Kirk and Spock in horror and rage. The story is resolved in that the past the Enteprise crew went back to was a parallel universe entirely (thus the existence of Star Trek as a fictional tv show) and they realize they don't have to ensure this atrocity happens in this timeline and they go home.
Update: It's this comic https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Getting_Real
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that atrocity....was it The Final Frontier?
I think it involved some kind of sabotage of a space shuttle mission. I'm trying to find the comic in question, which is like finding a needle in a haystack because there are too many Star Trek comics to count.
EDIT: Never mind, I found it: https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Getting_Real
In theory, every time we see them they could be from a slightly different future where they have different beliefs.
Some timelines they might not even exist, or just can't interfere, until the past gets fixed by our heroes.
In universe, Star Trek could be an adaption of the space station story that Benny Russell wrote.
History would be radically different if WW2 started a generation after it actually did. Everything would be completely different because different people would have been making decisions, the geo-political state of play would be completely different. Literally everything would be different. The SNW concept that progress can be delayed with only minor changes being made to the timeline is not credible imo.
But, it seems to be the case that the difference in the timelines is at its most substantial at the start of the divergence. Time starts to heal itself so that eventually it reaches a point it closely resembles the original timeline. It will never match the original timeline but after several decades, it might get reasonably close. If this is what is being postulated then it begs the questions: how exactly does time heal itself? What exactly is time's capabilities?
Also, if time is healing itself then that suggests there was an original timeline - a blueprint that it's constantly trying to match (even though that blueprint contains people travelling through time and corrupting the timeline). What makes that original timeline so special? It seems like time is purposely driving towards something. I think it's an interesting sci fi concept and I hope it's explored further in the series but it doesn't make much sense to me right now.
One 'continuity error' I noticed in episode 3 was that the uniforms in neither timeline have temperature controls like in That Which Survives. Admittedly, that was technology that wasn't mentioned in The Enemy Within and was stated expressly to have limitations but it's technology that exists now so it's odd that it has been forgotten.
Nothing odd about it, it's just a contrivance to get Kirk and La'an to change into contemporary clothes. Same as every other time travel episode in the other shows always contrive a means to have the characters dress in contemporary outfits.
*chuckles in mechanical rice picker*
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