Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Marsden]

I almost hate to suggest this, but it's all connected, right? Remember that episode "Repairs" with that guy stuck in another dimension or Hell?

What if, in the season finale, instead of killing off Garrett or Ward, they somehow get sent to Hell instead?

That would be pretty brutal.

May was the one that "suggested" that he stay in hell, maybe HYDRA can call him back to use against their enemies.

I hope Paxton isn't really going to be done next episode, he's great as Garret. Ward doesn't seem like a good leader on his own, but a good right hand man for Garret.

I wonder if they are going to stumble on the right drug and use it on Hand. She might still be Madame Hydra if they change her mind. Then they can strip those red streaks out of her hair and give her the green hair.

 

[Kemaiku]

Or they use him to secure a link to create a portal to Muspelheim and bring the fire demons through.

I doubt they have the budget in the show for that though.

 

[FPAlpha]

It's like everybody's saying, "Can we please have the boring show back?"

I get that vibe too.. it's like people can't stomach the fact that some guy from the team they may have liked turned out to be a traitor who fooled everyone.

I really like this change and i hope the writers didn't install some kind of back door through which they can bring back Ward to the team when they feel like it because it would be lame even for comics who've had character/allegiance switches for ages.

I think they'll spend the rest of the season fighting Hydra and have a big season finale reveal about some other enemy where they can concentrate on for the second season with occasional Hydra/Ward returns to plague the team.

At least i hope so.. permanent Shield vs Hydra battles could get boring as well as the hunt for the escaped Fridge prisoners.

 

[Marsden]

They're all LMDs. All of em!

 

[Christopher]

As for Ward popping up on every episode, yeah, that just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. The only way it would even work for half a season or so is if he could somehow keep convincing everyone that he's still a good guy.

Well, first off, he's a main-credits regular, which means he's probably contractually obligated to appear in every episode (at least for the remainder of this season). Second, many shows have featured regular villains in every episode. See the examples I gave above of regular cast members who remained regulars after becoming villains -- or shows that have had both the protagonists and antagonists as series regulars from the start, like, say, Hogan's Heroes or V (either version) or the 2006 Robin Hood or the current The Tomorrow People. Or any number of cartoons -- Skeletor was in He-Man every week, Cobra Commander was in GI Joe every week, etc.

Now that we've got a group of main villains established and given their own HQ, it would be easy to continue including scenes with Ward and other villains plotting on a weekly basis. He doesn't have to be with the Bus team in order to have a presence.

It's like everybody's saying, "Can we please have the boring show back?"

I get that vibe too.. it's like people can't stomach the fact that some guy from the team they may have liked turned out to be a traitor who fooled everyone.

What's weird is that nobody did seem to like Ward before. All I heard were complaints about how dull he was. Yet now that he's shown his true colors, it's like everyone wants the old Ward back. People are never grateful for what they have. They complain about it until they lose it, and then they suddenly miss it.

 

[Star Wolf]

With Ward, it has been a long time since an actual Nazi has been a series regular. Some may saying wait a minute. How far is this going

 

[sojourner]

Well, first off, he's a main-credits regular, which means he's probably contractually obligated to appear in every episode (at least for the remainder of this season).

He may be obligated to appear, but that doesn't mean the producers are obligated to use him in every episode.

 

[Christopher]

With Ward, it has been a long time since an actual Nazi has been a series regular. Some may saying wait a minute. How far is this going

He's not a Nazi, he's a HYDRA agent. The first Captain America movie made a point of having HYDRA strike an independent course from Hitler and the Nazis; they're not after racial genocide, just generalized power and conquest. I mean, would a Neo-Nazi group include someone like Raina? Not to mention that Akela Amador and Mike Peterson hardly constitute the Aryan ideal of Ubermenschen.

 

[Star Wolf]

I don't think the writer's cute pivot with Garrett trying to get the troops to knock off the Hydra double Nazi salute camouflaged what they are and their motives

 

[Christopher]

Just because they descend from the Nazis doesn't mean their ideology and goals remain identical. It's been seven decades, after all. Any organization can change a lot in that time -- and indeed would need to in order to survive over that span of time.

Besides, what's wrong with portraying Nazis or affiliated groups as villains? Nazis have been perfectly acceptable villains in fiction for the past 73 years at least. So what if Ward is a series regular? Lots of really evil people have been series regulars. It's hardly an endorsement of their ideology.

 

[shivkala]

I actually like Ward better as a villain and hope he stays evil. Before "Turn, Turn, Turn," I kept thinking how "Bored" rhymes with "Ward."

That said, I definitely see Ward coming back and Skye vouching for him, in a reversal of earlier in the season. I hope not, because that would be cliched.

And I think some posters are equating my opinion of Garrett as a cartoonish villain as a knock on Paxton's acting. I do think he is chewing a bit of scenery, but I don't think that makes him a bad actor. It takes a certain talent to chew scenery and not come off as cheesy. Garrett is anything but cheesy. He's entertaining as Hell, and I enjoy every scene he's in. It seems Paxton is having fun with the role, which is great.

Someone here commented about Ward being more formidable if Fitz or someone joins him. I got a sense in "Providence" that there was a coldness between Fitz and Simmons. It seems that, even before he saved her, Simmons liked Triplett and I think Fitz is picking up on it. It would be very interesting to see the two of them split on opposite sides.

 

[Yminale]

Just because they descend from the Nazis doesn't mean their ideology and goals remain identical. It's been seven decades, after all. Any organization can change a lot in that time -- and indeed would need to in order to survive over that span of time.

There are many organizations whose ideology and goals remain relatively intact even after decades. HYDRA's main goal is world domination by any means possible. They aren't HYDRA if their goals and methods have changed.

Besides, what's wrong with portraying Nazis or affiliated groups as villains? .

Because it makes no sense that a rational person would join HYDRA. People who join neo-Nazis groups have "issues". Garett makes perfect sense since he is a complete mercenary. Ward is fine too since he's merely following Garett but that doesn't mean he is going to take over HYDRA and twist his evil mustache and try to rule the world. I see Ward probably following the trajectory of Spike (Buffy).

 

[Star Wolf]

Just because they descend from the Nazis doesn't mean their ideology and goals remain identical. It's been seven decades, after all. Any organization can change a lot in that time -- and indeed would need to in order to survive over that span of time.
Besides, what's wrong with portraying Nazis or affiliated groups as villains? Nazis have been perfectly acceptable villains in fiction for the past 73 years at least. So what if Ward is a series regular? Lots of really evil people have been series regulars. It's hardly an endorsement of their ideology.

There is nothing wrong with having Nazi characters, however some of the audience had invested in Ward..And being good people don't want to like a Nazi

 

[Yminale]

There is nothing wrong with having Nazi characters, however some of the audience had invested in Ward..And being good people don't want to like a Nazi

I doubt Ward is going to be portrayed as an anti-Semite sprouting off Nietzschean pro-Germanic nonsense. He's just going to be an evil guy trying to help an organization to rule the world.

That being said, I liked "boring" Ward but I'm willing to let the writers do what they want (as long as they don't "redeem" him and bring him back on the team). We've seen the "real" Ward in episode 15 "Yes Men" under Lorelei's influence.

 

[Christopher]

Just because they descend from the Nazis doesn't mean their ideology and goals remain identical. It's been seven decades, after all. Any organization can change a lot in that time -- and indeed would need to in order to survive over that span of time.

There are many organizations whose ideology and goals remain relatively intact even after decades. HYDRA's main goal is world domination by any means possible. They aren't HYDRA if their goals and methods have changed.

But that's exactly my point: That their goal is world domination, not racial purity or eugenics. Domination by any means equals a willingness to work with or recruit people of any ethnicity if they can help achieve the goal. That right there is a profound difference from the goals of the Nazi Party. Thus it doesn't follow that being a HYDRA agent makes Ward a Nazi.

Besides, what's wrong with portraying Nazis or affiliated groups as villains? .

Because it makes no sense that a rational person would join HYDRA. People who join neo-Nazis groups have "issues". Garett makes perfect sense since he is a complete mercenary. Ward is fine too since he's merely following Garett but that doesn't mean he is going to take over HYDRA and twist his evil mustache and try to rule the world. I see Ward probably following the trajectory of Spike (Buffy).

Ward clearly does have issues. The flashbacks we saw when he held the Berserker staff weren't part of his cover story; he really did have an abusive upbringing and there's no telling how it messed him up.

And in fact, lots of rational people join organizations with harmful or misguided or evil goals. Logic is only as good as the premises plugged into it, so people can reason themselves into any number of insane conclusions just by cherrypicking the right arguments. Look at Pierce in TWS. He convinced himself, logically, methodically, that breaking the rules and ignoring human rights and international law was the most effective way to create order and security, that achieving power by any means and at any cost to individual lives was necessary to create a stable world.

I mean, really, most tyrants don't see themselves as the villains. They're convinced that their choices are rationally necessary for the greater good. But their reasoning is based on tragically flawed premises.

 

[Star Wolf]

I was on a news blackout until I saw TWS, now weeks later on the post show discussion s people are still hoping Ward is a triple agent.

 

[Marsden]

Not me and I'm looking forward to the day when Coulson or one of the team kills him.

Actually, even though I've grown to like them somewhat, I'd still be ok with everyone but Coulson being killed at some point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

According to Wikipedia, HYDRA is not an acronym but a reference to the monster of greek mythology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HYDRA
The entry doesn't explain why HYDRA is all caps but it's probably due to 2 reasons.
1. There are real hydra's in the Marvel Universe
2. Certain character are called Hydra (ex. Madame Hydra).
Hence it's in all caps to show that we are talking about the organization.

Where does the "HYDRA" in all caps originate? In looking at Stan Lee's introduction to the SHIELD story in Son of Origins he spells it as "Hydra".

 

[kitik]

Someone here commented about Ward being more formidable if Fitz or someone joins him. I got a sense in "Providence" that there was a coldness between Fitz and Simmons. It seems that, even before he saved her, Simmons liked Triplett and I think Fitz is picking up on it. It would be very interesting to see the two of them split on opposite sides.

That's not the first time there's been that sort of tension between them. Wasn't there an episode where Simmons was acting a little dreamy over Ward? Or was it Fitz acting that way over Skye? Or maybe it was even both.

 

[bbjeg]

... he's a main-credits regular, which means he's probably contractually obligated to appear in every episode (at least for the remainder of this season)...

The Walking Dead enjoys killing main credit characters. Game of Thrones too.