I think it more likely that Ward will stay around as the regular "face of evil", assuming Paxton's association with the show is on a limited basis.
Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread
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Well that would certainly be a reversal for a main cast member of a TV series.
How so?
As this series began I thought that Ward would be a main cast member as a dedicated member of Coulson's team. Now it looks to me like he's going to be the villain who shows up in every single episode. Doesn't that seem like it will get old?
Has something like this been done before (starts good, becomes bad, stays a regular)?
At most, a reoccurring villain would have to be a guest character not a series star simply because they'd have to switch it up and have side plots.
At most, a reoccurring villain would have to be a guest character not a series star simply because they'd have to switch it up and have side plots.
You have something like Smallville...we all knew where Clark and Lex were going to end up, but they started off as buddy characters.
I'm sure there are plenty of series out there that have antagonists as part of the main cast, and they're probably more serialized than episodic.
I dunno...the show finally gets interesting, and people are so quick to wish it away....
I'm sure there are plenty of series out there that have antagonists as part of the main cast, and they're probably more serialized than episodic.
I dunno...the show finally gets interesting, and people are so quick to wish it away....
It might be a Whedon calling card. Angel on Buffy was a good guy, turned bad, turned good (turn, turn, turn), Malcolm on Firefly was a noble soldier turned pirate, even Avengers had Hawkeye go from good to bad and back. A lot of his works have characters switching sides, albeit all under different circumstances.
Vision will do the same.
Spike, Faith, Illyria, Cordelia, Byod
As a side note, I highly doubt that Ward will be in every episode going forward. Probably every episode for the rest of the season, maybe into next season for a bit, but his storyline will have to resolve either permanently (death), semi-permanently (jail) or temporarily (his side loses and he goes on the run or something else that takes him off the show for awhile)
It's like everybody's saying, "Can we please have the boring show back?"
I don't think so, but I also think the show wants to be a semi-serialized show. It's not going to have a whole season where both the good guys and bad guys are followed at the same time. In addition, I don't think it wants to be a show where there's really only one bad guy group. I think they want to mix things up.
My only point is having Ward in every episode as a bad guy (not a reformed bad guy or anything like that) would preclude "mixing things up."
My only point is having Ward in every episode as a bad guy (not a reformed bad guy or anything like that) would preclude "mixing things up."
I'm willing to give them a chance with however they're planning to handle this...it can only be an improvement.
Oh, yes. Spoilered on general principles and for space:
Morganna on Merlin was a protagonist for the first couple of seasons, then became the chief villain for the rest of the series.
Londo on Babylon 5 started out as friendly comic relief but became, reluctantly, responsible for horrible evils as the series went on (while at the same time, the initially antagonistic G'Kar became a nobler figure).
As stated, there's Lex in Smallville, though he was always a morally ambiguous figure. Gene Khan in the animated Iron Man Armored Adventures had a similar trajectory -- friend of the hero that we knew was fated to become a villain (the Mandarin), then became an overt villain but still with redeemable qualities.
Londo on Babylon 5 started out as friendly comic relief but became, reluctantly, responsible for horrible evils as the series went on (while at the same time, the initially antagonistic G'Kar became a nobler figure).
As stated, there's Lex in Smallville, though he was always a morally ambiguous figure. Gene Khan in the animated Iron Man Armored Adventures had a similar trajectory -- friend of the hero that we knew was fated to become a villain (the Mandarin), then became an overt villain but still with redeemable qualities.
He's not in every episode, which was a big part of my question. I'm talking about keeping the bad guy as a main character and not a guest character.
ETA: Although he could be in every episode if you count flashbacks. Still, that's not something easy to reproduce without flashbacks.
ETA: Although he could be in every episode if you count flashbacks. Still, that's not something easy to reproduce without flashbacks.
The problem I'd have with Ward is that he's not a strong enough character to be morally ambiguous and working for himself. (Quinn has got that down.) He's not a strong enough character to replace Garrett and lead Centipede/HYDRA. He is a follower, not a leader, and as much as he likes to come across as a "lone wolf", he really isn't. Without a group to play off of, without a "cause," he really doesn't have anything to motivate him.
Ultimately he needs to work for someone else, or he needs his personality to do a 180.
Ultimately he needs to work for someone else, or he needs his personality to do a 180.
^^ Pretty much. He's gone from an independent heroic figure trying to evolve into a team player to Garrett's puppy dog. I'm not seeing how this is more interesting.
Anyway, how about this?
Heroes Yield to Dominating Repressive Aggressors.
Anyway, how about this?
Heroes Yield to Dominating Repressive Aggressors.
His personality has been a fake, hasn't it?
As for Ward popping up on every episode, yeah, that just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. The only way it would even work for half a season or so is if he could somehow keep convincing everyone that he's still a good guy.
As for the bad guys, hey, we've got a pretty decent lineup ready to go up against our heroes: Ward, Garrett, Raina, Quinn, Deathlok, Graviton, Blizzard, whoever that guy was that Garrett was talking to at the Fridge breakout, etc.
(edit- oh yeah, Blackout apparently)
(edit 2 - I forgot Talbot. He can pop up and threaten to arrest them every now and then)
Am I forgetting anyone?
If most of those villains survive until next season (if there is a next season), they could each account for a good 2-6 episodes each. Then throw in a few new bad guys, and you've got pretty much the whole season covered. A strong cast of familiar villains probably wouldn't hurt the show.
That said, there's still no guarantee that we've seen all the betrayals and turns that we're going to yet. Lots of folks are suggesting that Ward might redeem himself as a final act, or that Raina may have zero loyalty to Garrett and Hydra whatsoever. But what if the turn is the opposite, if we lose another hero to Ward's side. We may yet see the pair of Fitz and Simmons broken up (I hope not though, as they really have become a great and entertaining pair). Ward may be able to turn on the charm on Skye (though that seems doubtful, as I think Skye would feel very indebted and loyal to Coulson right now). Heck, Coulson or May might still turn. Let alone Triplett. The show has done it's best to try to make us wonder about Triplett and whether there are still more secrets to reveal about Coulson.
(Speaking of which, I really did like it in Turn Turn Turn when Triplett locked the door when he was in the room with Simmons. You were just waiting all episode long for a betrayal there. Good setup from the folks running the show.)
If they want to keep Ward around for all of next season, well, he'd be a lot more formidable if he had someone like Fitz or Simmons working with him.
But like I said at the very top, we're just getting the real Ward now. If he has someone like Raina or Hydra or Quinn backing him up, he'd be pretty formidable and for a good length of time too.
I almost hate to suggest this, but it's all connected, right? Remember that episode "Repairs" with that guy stuck in another dimension or Hell?
What if, in the season finale, instead of killing off Garrett or Ward, they somehow get sent to Hell instead?
That would be pretty brutal.
What if, in the season finale, instead of killing off Garrett or Ward, they somehow get sent to Hell instead?
That would be pretty brutal.
My guess is not entirely. He's certainly been lying and faking some things and some parts of his personality, but I feel like in this long term undercover operations, it's inevitable that your general personality still shines through, even if you need to lie at times or act with specific intentions against how you otherwise would. Think about Garrett, even as we're now seeing him as the bad guy, he's still kinda the same character, kinda loud, kinda bosterous, he's just fighting for the otherside.
I'm guessing what we've seen of Ward is fair representation of his personality, maybe with a lot of the edge purposefully taken off.
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