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It shouldn't absolve them. None of the team has clean hands. Of the four who went in, Fitz was the only one who didn't fire a weapon, but he got them past doors, which he knew weren't being opened for parleying, and he carried and produced a flash-bang-type thing on request, which he knew wasn't just for show and which was used to create the opportunity to mortally wound one of the guards. Fitz is just as guilty as any of them. Coulson gave tactical orders and fired his weapon, and all four of them knew what they were doing.
Coulson made it clear he feels remorse, and under his leadership, the team has appropriately acted so that the guards' sacrifice won't be in vain. Even if it turns out that two (or more) of Coulson's team were evil, it would be wrong for the rest of them to scapegoat the evil members and lay all the blame on the evil members' shoulders, for actions they all cooperated in carrying out.
As for the absolution thing, we still don't know whose facility that was, or who those guards were working for. For all we know, it could have been a Hydra facility that was compartmentalized out of Garrett's need-to-know...if SHIELD can have so much secrecy and intrigue within its ranks, can we expect any less of a Hydra that's been living inside SHIELD?
I really thought Victoria was going to be Madame Hydra.
I guess it's possible that Ward didn't kill her, I remember an episode of Mission Impossible where the whole team was inflitrated and Barney ( I think) killed everyone with fake bullets.
And then in "Seeds," there's a really nice moment where Skye is standing at the wall of valor, and we hear Coulson's voice off-camera saying that the world is full of evil, pain, lies and death -- and the camera pans and lands on Ward when he says "lies" and "evil."
Sure but it then leaves Agents in a kind of limbo having to twist its own story to that of the movie. Now with Hydra it worked because it was planned from the beginning to lead up to this but i wonder what kind of stories Agents can tell for an entire season safely so as to not step on movie continuity?
The Marvel Universe is a big place. Deep Space Nine was able to tell stories that didn't step on The Next Generation's continuity. The various CSI shows are able to maintain independent storylines.
And sure, AoS will have to adjust its plotlines to adapt to whatever happens in the movies, but that's no different from what individual Marvel comic titles have to do when a big crossover event like Civil War or Spider Island happens. The goal of the MCU has been to bring the storytelling style of the comics to the screen, and this is a part of it -- except now it's the TV shows that fill the role of the regular monthly titles, and the movies that fill the role of the massive miniseries or crossover events.
I hope they have also planned for this and pull off a seamless handover to Avengers 2 and back to Agents when the time comes in a year for the movie.
Age of Ultron is going to be less connected to SHIELD than the first movie was. Which makes sense. Again, the movie continuity is designed to stand on its own without the audience needing to follow the TV continuity as well. So it stands to reason that in the next Earth-based MCU movie after TWS, SHIELD would still be gone. So the Avengers in Age of Ultron won't be hanging around on a Helicarrier and answering to Nick Fury. Samuel L. Jackson's already said that Fury's role in the film won't be very large. The Avengers are going to be more on their own, presumably operating out of Avengers Tower (formerly Stark Tower) and relying on their own resources (well, mostly Tony's).
So the connections between AoU and AoS are likely to be relatively small. The film will surely be referenced in AoS just as Thor 2 was and Guardians has apparently been, but they won't be overlapping as closely as AoS did with The Avengers or TWS.
I imagine that the TV people would be informed by the movie people as to how the state of SHIELD will be depicted in the next Avengers film, such that AoS could tailor their storyline to get to that point.
Certainly. It takes far longer to make a movie than it does to make a TV series. The producers of AoS knew about the script to TWS as soon as they went into production, so they've been knowingly building toward this point all season. For any future movie, they'll probably have up to a year's advance notice, enough time to gear an entire season toward setting up the movie, if there's a need to.
They also have an out in that SHIELD was never terribly open in the first place, so what Coulson and company have been up to in the meantime may not be known to the characters in the Avengers 2.
It just struck me that what May said about Fury's reasons for assigning her to spy on Coulson might explain why his resurrection hasn't been revealed to the Avengers. May and the team were meant to keep an eye on Coulson and be prepared if something went wrong with his resurrection. That means Fury wasn't sure it would actually work, and that the jury's still out on that issue. So maybe Fury doesn't want to tell Stark and Cap and the others that Coulson's back and then get the call that Coulson's turned into a zombie and May had to take him down when he tried to eat Fitz's brain. He wants to keep the secret until he's sure Phil really is back for good.
Although
now that Fury is maintaining the cover that he's dead, I guess there's nobody to break the news to the Avengers.
Indeed, the fact that Coulson is still considered dead as far as the movies are concerned is a perfect example of the principle that the films are meant to work independently of the show, that the overt influence goes in only one direction. The show is designed to be an optional piece of the puzzle, something that can be added to the picture but that still leaves a complete and coherent picture if it's left out.
Great episode and some great twists that really kept people guessing.
Does this partly explain why we haven't heard anything about whether the show will be renewed for next season? Just announcing that it would continue would be kind of a spoiler. Or for that matter, announcing that it would be brought back but with a new name (Ex-Agents of Shield or whatever) would be hugely spoilerific.
Certainly. It takes far longer to make a movie than it does to make a TV series. The producers of AoS knew about the script to TWS as soon as they went into production, so they've been knowingly building toward this point all season. For any future movie, they'll probably have up to a year's advance notice, enough time to gear an entire season toward setting up the movie, if there's a need to.
In the case of Avengers 2, I believe it's already in production, so they must have a script available to go by in deciding what to do with AoS through next season.
Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.
So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.
So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.
So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
I'm puzzled by the timing in this episode. It looked like it all took place on the same day as the film's climax, as the launch of Operation Insight and the three Helicarriers. After all, in the film, HYDRA didn't reveal itself openly within SHIELD until Cap outed them on the PA. Fury's apparent death came at least a couple of days earlier in the story. But wasn't May talking to Fury at the end of last week's episode, just minutes in story time before this one started? I'd really like to see a detailed chronological breakdown of how the past couple of episodes and the movie fit together, like a smaller-scale version of the one I've seen for the Phase One films.
This was my attempt at a timeline: Link (obviously has spoilers for TWS). It's not clean. It basically suggests that HYDRA was moving worldwide to eliminate agents even when events at Triskelion suggested things weren't too bad.
Specifically, the coded HYDRA message was sent out before even the first attempt to kill Rogers with only the events predating it were the attempts to kill Fury.
A variation on my last suggestion would be that Ward's loyalties are strictly personal, not ideological, and are currently divided between Garrett and Coulson's team. He went with Garrett to save Garrett's life, again having no qualms against killing Hand and her people. The rest might play out pretty much as I described before, with the added benefit that if Ward wasn't previously affiliated with Hydra per se, his status as a recruit would give Garrett and company an excuse for exposition to the audience via Ward.
That's sort of my take. Certainly, I think he's loyal to Garrett personally, not HYDRA. I'm desperately trying to remember Garrett's line to Skye last week. It was specifically about loyalty to your SO and talking about Skye having loyalty to Ward. Then he finished the sentence with "Turn, Turn, Turn." This isn't something that should be hard to find, but there's too much noise in a google search.
...
It just struck me that what May said about Fury's reasons for assigning her to spy on Coulson might explain why his resurrection hasn't been revealed to the Avengers. May and the team were meant to keep an eye on Coulson and be prepared if something went wrong with his resurrection. That means Fury wasn't sure it would actually work, and that the jury's still out on that issue. So maybe Fury doesn't want to tell Stark and Cap and the others that Coulson's back and then get the call that Coulson's turned into a zombie and May had to take him down when he tried to eat Fitz's brain. He wants to keep the secret until he's sure Phil really is back for good...
And then in "Seeds," there's a really nice moment where Skye is standing at the wall of valor, and we hear Coulson's voice off-camera saying that the world is full of evil, pain, lies and death -- and the camera pans and lands on Ward when he says "lies" and "evil."
10 years ago, in the comics, because the Kree had been utterly done over by te detonation of a negabomb, they'd been relegated to gypsie trash that could never rebuild... In Avengers comics there was a story called "Live Kree or Die." which was about a stunt where the Kree where adapting/infecting... Humaniforming (kreeforming?) 5 and a half billion Earthlings into Kree.
Which is a blip compared to what introducing Skrull flesh onto the food table did to America after Reed Richards lost track of some skrulls he hypnotized into believing that they were cows.
Oh, and some guy fucked a monkey in the 80s, which turned out to be an awful idea in retrospect.
Last night's episode was a direct crossover with a major Marvel movie which set an April box office record. It was an amazing excellent episode with huge plot twists.
So, naturally, it got a series low rating for the program.
I saw something later today that said the final rating was revised upwards by 2 tenths of a point, so it wasn't quite the series low.
That said, the fact that they're rerunning this episode next week as part of a doubleheader with a new one is certainly telling about whether Marvel/Disney/ABC themselves thought that some people would hold off on watching last night if they hadn't caught TWS yet.
In the case of Avengers 2, I believe it's already in production, so they must have a script available to go by in deciding what to do with AoS through next season.
Yeah, whatever part Shield/Fury/etc will play in AOU, the writers at AOS should have all of those details before they start working on Season 2 (if there is going to be a season 2), so I would expect that if there's anything to be built around with Avengers 2, it'll happen just as impressively as we've seen in the last few episodes of AOS.
Speaking of how the show has been set up and designed right from the very start, last week's episode "End of the Beginning" sure was appropriately titled, wasn't it?
Another thing that disappointed me; I saw no ads for the tv show when I was in the movie theater. You'd think they would have done SOMETHING. Maybe over the credits, check out AGENTS OF SHIELD for the full story on Hydra or something like that...
^I saw a poster somewhere saying that they did see a commercial for the show before the movie. I don't know if there was one when I went to see it, since I was a bit late and missed the start of the trailers. (Though unfortunately not late enough to miss the trailer for the Adam Sandler movie.)
