Agreed 100%. I thought maybe that would interesting but, as you say, massive letdown. Meeting her creators could've been so interesting. But it was dull.Talk about a massive letdown with the holo planet. They just use that bloody Starfleet academy set again.
Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x08 – “The Life of the Stars”
The Doctor was a tool when he came out of the box.
He didn't become an unstable, unpredictable life form until Swarm, when he ate another hologram, like a vampire to survive, which the teething pains there of, he was still complaining about in Futures End.
Star Trek English Lit. 
No thanks.
and
Sam the Hologram comes from Bizzarro World (Superman mythos DC comics reference), got it. Who knew?
Yeah, didn't care for this one in the slightest. Not the type of thing I watch Star trek for, and Sam is the character I like least so no, wasn't in any way caring about the outcome of that storyline.
Also, is Federation space dangerous or not? They tell us in the previous episode it is, yet send the Chancellor of the Academy, and 800 year old Hologram and a Cadet Hologram on a long journey in just a small Shuttlecraft. I thought they'd take a part of the main ship to do this trip, but no.
A 2.
No thanks.and
Sam the Hologram comes from Bizzarro World (Superman mythos DC comics reference), got it. Who knew?
Yeah, didn't care for this one in the slightest. Not the type of thing I watch Star trek for, and Sam is the character I like least so no, wasn't in any way caring about the outcome of that storyline.
Also, is Federation space dangerous or not? They tell us in the previous episode it is, yet send the Chancellor of the Academy, and 800 year old Hologram and a Cadet Hologram on a long journey in just a small Shuttlecraft. I thought they'd take a part of the main ship to do this trip, but no.
A 2.
Using the play Our Town was a crutch. A better written episode would've been able to get the message across effectively using its own story, not leaching off a classic play.
Has that been done in trek? I'm getting memories.......
I think speed was of the essence.Star Trek English Lit.
and
Sam the Hologram comes from Bizzarro World (Superman mythos DC comics reference), got it. Who knew?
Yeah, didn't care for this one in the slightest. Not the type of thing I watch Star trek for, and Sam is the character I like least so no, wasn't in any way caring about the outcome of that storyline.
Also, is Federation space dangerous or not? They tell us in the previous episode it is, yet send the Chancellor of the Academy, and 800 year old Hologram and a Cadet Hologram on a long journey in just a small Shuttlecraft. I thought they'd take a part of the main ship to do this trip, but no.
A 2.
Alright, since everyone is disagreeing with me, I looked at the Gen Ed requirements for my alma mater (UMass Amherst).
Obviously been awhile, (I was a freshmen in 1997 - goddamn), but yeah, you have to take, as part of the humanities gen ed requirements, a single course from either the arts or literature. Which explains why I didn't take an arts class.
Obviously been awhile, (I was a freshmen in 1997 - goddamn), but yeah, you have to take, as part of the humanities gen ed requirements, a single course from either the arts or literature. Which explains why I didn't take an arts class.
That's the problem I'm having with this show. I don't watch ST for teenage angst stuff. There are other shows for that (at least I'm assuming there are).
Learning a variety of subjects makes you well-rounded.
Did the episode mention Jeffrey at all? Though "Kenneth"'s daughter may have died, he still had a wife and son. Unless he played the program through their lives to the end with no resets and they've since "died" too.
Did the episode mention Jeffrey at all? Though "Kenneth"'s daughter may have died, he still had a wife and son. Unless he played the program through their lives to the end with no resets and they've since "died" too.
Given it made the trip to the Delta Quadrant in like a day, it was probably the Pathfinder Drive Shuttle.
Which means nothing else could keep up with it.
I've given it a third watch just now. I reckon give about 50% of episodes one or two watches, 45% 3 or 4, and 5% get like, 20 plus.
(1) I'm still #S4T but if you look at her lines, other than her intro, they suit Reno better.
(2) Kask was disappointing. The lack of locations generally is. In the early days of DISCO I used to take long weekends to "Torranno" and could get a decent half-day location visiting. Always stayed at Bond Place so I guess I did that one in advance of SNW using it.
(3) The class was small because that was just the Miyazaki survivors, where was Kyle? Surely he would have been better with the rest of the expedition group, than getting therapised on his own.
(4) The Doctor mourning his lost Voyager crew (real) would have landed better. This one always makes me well up....
(1) I'm still #S4T but if you look at her lines, other than her intro, they suit Reno better.
(2) Kask was disappointing. The lack of locations generally is. In the early days of DISCO I used to take long weekends to "Torranno" and could get a decent half-day location visiting. Always stayed at Bond Place so I guess I did that one in advance of SNW using it.
(3) The class was small because that was just the Miyazaki survivors, where was Kyle? Surely he would have been better with the rest of the expedition group, than getting therapised on his own.
(4) The Doctor mourning his lost Voyager crew (real) would have landed better. This one always makes me well up....
I'll also add that he might have felt it dishonoring to Belle's memory to do anything less.
Impression after watching for the first time:
Best character focused episode so far! First time I really cared about the characters. Even SAM, who now appears actually deeper beyond the annoying surface. And great Doctor story, it really moved me.
9/10 points for this episode ... that makes it the highest rated episode for me so far.
Best character focused episode so far! First time I really cared about the characters. Even SAM, who now appears actually deeper beyond the annoying surface. And great Doctor story, it really moved me.
9/10 points for this episode ... that makes it the highest rated episode for me so far.
The writers were very likely forbidden from making any definitive statements about how or when the characters from past shows died. Which would have limited them to having the Doctor make generic "oh they're dead" statements that wouldn't have as much of an impact.
This episode had some depth, with the Doctor revealing (predictably) why he shield away from Sam all this time.
The rest of the kids in English class was what I kinda feared the show might be.
I love how Tarima was a total mess about her trauma, got drunk about it and then was fine. It hit very close to home, and probably isn't the best example to set but... yeah. Works sometimes.
The rest of the kids in English class was what I kinda feared the show might be.
I love how Tarima was a total mess about her trauma, got drunk about it and then was fine. It hit very close to home, and probably isn't the best example to set but... yeah. Works sometimes.
Holy hell, that was an absolute waste of an hour for me.
All the characters left their personalities behind to speak in the generic MFA/English Lit course voice. Not a single person felt like they were actually themselves, including the EMH. Everyone just flattened into a single dopey "trauma processing" voice.
It dragged like crazy as well, felt like three hours. I watched it with a couple other people and one fell asleep.
Has to be my first 1/10. This show is giving me whiplash, I thought it was getting back on track last week and then they put out what might be one of the most tedious episodes of Star Trek in recent memory this week. At least Picard S2 turned into accidental genius while it was trying its mid-century "mundanity of life" literature stuff; this had nothing.
All the characters left their personalities behind to speak in the generic MFA/English Lit course voice. Not a single person felt like they were actually themselves, including the EMH. Everyone just flattened into a single dopey "trauma processing" voice.
It dragged like crazy as well, felt like three hours. I watched it with a couple other people and one fell asleep.
Has to be my first 1/10. This show is giving me whiplash, I thought it was getting back on track last week and then they put out what might be one of the most tedious episodes of Star Trek in recent memory this week. At least Picard S2 turned into accidental genius while it was trying its mid-century "mundanity of life" literature stuff; this had nothing.
^ Interesting to see how wildly people’s reactions to this one differ, because wow, I really loved this one! Probably my favorite episode so far. Loved the whole somber and serious vibe of the episode. The way the characters dealt with their individual traumas and experiences felt surprisingly real and well written. I’m not sure I fully understand why Tarima had to switch to the Academy now, but I’m just glad she’s back.
Although I really like Mary Wiseman, I must admit I found Tilly rather grating in this one and was glad to see her leave at the end of episode, to be honest. Thankfully she wasn’t in so many scenes.
I also wish they would have been more overt in this about about how Ocam is talking about his feelings for SAM.
Although I really like Mary Wiseman, I must admit I found Tilly rather grating in this one and was glad to see her leave at the end of episode, to be honest. Thankfully she wasn’t in so many scenes.
Same, tbh. That whole sequence with the Doctor talking about losing his holographic daughter made me very emotional. Him saying that seeing SAM for the first time reminded her of seeing his daughter is what broke me. Beautifully written and performed. Also the sequence of showing SAM growing up. I wish we had gotten a little more of that. I understood why they decided to portray “Kasq” as a stylized, black and white version of the Atrium. But for SAM’s childhood it would have been nice if they hadn’t shown that also to be in that set.
These are some interesting thoughts and I wish that’s how they would have done it in the episode. I love “Real Life” and so I’m glad they are referencing it, but I think the whole thing would have rung more true if he had also mentioned losing all the other people that were important in his life.
Agreed. In hindsight I’m glad they played coy with what’s up with the Doctor for seven episodes, because this really gave this episode more weight. What a cathartic moment both for him and SAM. I’m curious if in classic Trek fashion all of this will be basically forgotten by the next episode or if there will be a noticeable difference in how they portray SAM and her relationship to her now-parent.
I’ve been mulling over this while watching the episode. I was today years old when I first learned there was a play called “Our Town”. But I gotta say, I think it actually worked for me. They used to regularly reference Shakespeare plays in classic Trek and although I almost never had actually read them before seeing them referenced, I was usually able to follow. Although in this case they obviously made the play much more essential to the plot of the episode. It helped that the few bits and pieces I understood about “Our Town” sounded really interesting.
This, yes! Kyle should really have been there. One wonders what the War College is doing to mend their cadet’s traumas.
I also wish they would have been more overt in this about about how Ocam is talking about his feelings for SAM.
Actually what happened to SAM in this episode pretty neatly mirrors what happened to the Doctor in the Voyager episode “Swarm”. He began to malfunction because his program had exceeded its memory capacity after accumulating too many experiences and subroutines. His matrix started to destabilize and the solution was to effectively resetting him to an earlier state and erasing his memories. It was all forgotten by the next episode, but it’s pretty close to SAM’s condition.
I’ll agree with that. It doesn’t take me out of the episode, but I too prefer the more soothing star streaks from classic Trek compared to the funky light show we’re getting since the Kelvin movies.
I understand this perspective and they absolutely could have done that, sure, but I actually like that it’s a real play that I can now check out. They managed to make it sound rather interesting and profound.
Not explicitly, no. But implicitly, because the Doctor mentions that he created a family as opposed to just a daughter. Maybe I missed it, but they actually don’t even show footage of Jeffrey.
Delta Quadrant? They don’t say where Kasq is located
In what way did the show “normalize” her drinking? It was pretty obviously a self-sabotaging moment for the character, her lowest point. What made you think that there’s a level on which the writers wanted to communicate this as “a good example”?
what a episode 8 of starfleet academy
it was like a cw teen drama style episode
it was like a cw teen drama style episode
Loved this episode. Very creative and genuinely moving at times. Not to mention a great showcase for both Tilly and the EMH. And a nicely trippy SF solution to SAM's glitching as well.
And, honestly, Trek has always worn its English Lit propensities on its sleeve: Shakespeare, Dickens, Moby-Dick, etc. Why not Thorton Wilder as well?
For what it's worth, I thought the episode did a good job of briefly recapping the plot and themes of "Our Town," but then I've been familiar with the play for almost fifty years now, since first watching a TV production with Hal Holbrook back in 1977, which made a lasting impression on me. I admit to being a bit bemused to see some folks expressing unfamiliarity with it; I would have thought it was one of those staples of American theater -- like "Death of a Salesman" or "A Streetcar Named Desire" or "Arsenic and Old Lace" -- that everybody knew about by cultural osmosis, even if they haven't actually read it or seen it produced.
But maybe I'm showing my age here? Can't remember the last time I saw a local high school or community theater group put it on. Unlike, say, "Little Shop of Horrors" which always seems to be playing at some school or dinner theater, season after season. (But I guess SFA already homaged Audrey II in the prank war episode.)
Meanwhile, I was a chem major back in the day, but I definitely had to take some courses in literature, history, social studies, et cetera back in the college. Studied Shakespeare, Doestoevsky, Asian and Islamic civilization, creative writing, etc.
Ended up getting higher grades on my electives than in my actual major, which is I why I ended up as a writer instead of a chemist. Turns out I was better at science fiction than actual science!
And, honestly, Trek has always worn its English Lit propensities on its sleeve: Shakespeare, Dickens, Moby-Dick, etc. Why not Thorton Wilder as well?
For what it's worth, I thought the episode did a good job of briefly recapping the plot and themes of "Our Town," but then I've been familiar with the play for almost fifty years now, since first watching a TV production with Hal Holbrook back in 1977, which made a lasting impression on me. I admit to being a bit bemused to see some folks expressing unfamiliarity with it; I would have thought it was one of those staples of American theater -- like "Death of a Salesman" or "A Streetcar Named Desire" or "Arsenic and Old Lace" -- that everybody knew about by cultural osmosis, even if they haven't actually read it or seen it produced.
But maybe I'm showing my age here? Can't remember the last time I saw a local high school or community theater group put it on. Unlike, say, "Little Shop of Horrors" which always seems to be playing at some school or dinner theater, season after season. (But I guess SFA already homaged Audrey II in the prank war episode.)
Meanwhile, I was a chem major back in the day, but I definitely had to take some courses in literature, history, social studies, et cetera back in the college. Studied Shakespeare, Doestoevsky, Asian and Islamic civilization, creative writing, etc.
Ended up getting higher grades on my electives than in my actual major, which is I why I ended up as a writer instead of a chemist. Turns out I was better at science fiction than actual science!
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