Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Yistaan]

The Gorn, chapel/spcok, Kirk knowing Pike more than just one meeting ...need i go on..?

What fireproof said, what SNW is doing is no worse than Obi-Wan seemingly not recognizing the droids or Artoo seemingly not recognizing Yoda or Vader building Threepio and so on. The type of explanations developed for SW prequels so far have been enough for Trek.

Prequels are nothing new. They've been around throughout fiction. For example, Watson doesn't recognize Moriarty in the Final Problem but is familiar with him in the prequel the Valley of Fear. No explanation has ever been provided, other than Watson apparently having a faulty memory. At least SNW writers take a cursory glance at the relevant TOS episodes and write to force-fit their prequels, which is more than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle apparently did.

 

[Noname Given]

It DOES seem strange that Kirk doesn't recognize the Gorn in Arena now, this hinges on him knowing absolutely nothing about Scotty's service history (whose whole ship was destroyed by the Gorn), him knowing absolutely nothing about the woman who has a massive crush on him (as La'an's whole early life has been influenced by fear of the Gorn) and nothing about the Fed tensions with the Gorn (which occurred when he was literally the youngest first officer in Starfleet on the Farragut) and so on. While none of this is impossible, it's also extremely improbable.

Another thing is that the Gorn doesn't immediately infect Kirk with Gorn eggs to win the fight and be done with it. Maybe the Metrons told the Gorn this was too much of an unfair advantage and forbid this action, but that also is highly improbable in context of the Metrons seemingly allowing both combatants to do everything in their power to win.

I don't have a problem with it. For example, Pike knows T'Pring, Sarek and Amanda personally; knows Spock has an adopted sister, and also knows about box half brother Sybok. At this point in his life, Spock seems very open about everything. Once he's under the command of Kirk, he's changed, and he is suddenly very closed off.

James T. Kirk didn't find out about T'Pring until TOS S2 Amok Time and had no idea that either sarek or Amanda were Spock's parents until after they walked out of a shuttle and had fully introduced themselves to Kirk in TOS S2 Journey to Babel.

We have no clue how open Scotty is about his past.

I don't get the idea that because some people are assigned to work together that they automatically know everything in their backgrounds. Not everybody shares everything with their workmates.

 

[Dar70]

What fireproof said, what SNW is doing is no worse than Obi-Wan seemingly not recognizing the droids or Artoo seemingly not recognizing Yoda or Vader building Threepio and so on. The type of explanations developed for SW prequels so far have been enough for Trek.

Prequels are nothing new. They've been around throughout fiction. For example, Watson doesn't recognize Moriarty in the Final Problem but is familiar with him in the prequel the Valley of Fear. No explanation has ever been provided, other than Watson apparently having a faulty memory. At least SNW writers take a cursory glance at the relevant TOS episodes and write to force-fit their prequels, which is more than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle apparently did.

Oh it's a lot worse. I already mentioned Star wars and it's smaller "retcons" compared to Trek more egregious ones. SNW and Disco is outright changing things. For example if we had known who built 3po and then they had changed it to Anakin. I would agree with you. But we KNOW Kirk barely knew Pike. Met him ONE time. It's a very popular and well know episode among Trek fans. But now they knew each other for several years. Obi wan not knowing the droids? He said he didn't SEEM to remember owning R2. Not a Retcon at all. Let's not forget how Spock forgot to mention he learned how to Dance from one of Khans descendants 5 years before Khan. . Star wars is pretty much airtight compared to Star Trek. Always has and always will be. They even have stayed consistent with the look throughout.....kudos to the production teams.....

 

[HotRod]

But we KNOW Kirk barely knew Pike. Met him ONE time.

But we don't.

 

[Yistaan]

Oh it's a lot worse. I already mentioned Star wars and it's smaller "retcons" compared to Trek more egregious ones. SNW and Disco is outright changing things. For example if we had known who built 3po and then they had changed it to Anakin. I would agree with you. But we KNOW Kirk barely knew Pike. Met him ONE time. It's a very popular and well know episode among Trek fans. But now they knew each other for several years. Obi wan not knowing the droids? He said he didn't SEEM to remember owning R2. Not a Retcon at all. Let's not forget how Spock forgot to mention he learned how to Dance from one of Khans descendants 5 years before Khan. . Star wars is pretty much airtight compared to Star Trek. Always has and always will be. They even have stayed consistent with the look throughout.....kudos to the production teams.....

If it helps, there's wiggle room that everything after Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow is an alternate timeline due to the change in the Eugenics Wars. Nothing is stopping you from seeing it that way.

 

[HotRod]

If it helps, there's wiggle room that everything after Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow is an alternate timeline due to the change in the Eugenics Wars. Nothing is stopping you from seeing it that way.

Yet again, it seems I have to point out the fact that the Eugenics War has been moved since the very first episode of The Next Generation.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If it helps, there's wiggle room that everything after Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow is an alternate timeline due to the change in the Eugenics Wars. Nothing is stopping you from seeing it that way.

Not an alternate timeline, but an altered one. Star Trek has shown that they are two separate phenomenon. It's the same prime line, just having been changed through temporal incursions.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh it's a lot worse. I already mentioned Star wars and it's smaller "retcons" compared to Trek more egregious ones. SNW and Disco is outright changing things. For example if we had known who built 3po and then they had changed it to Anakin. I would agree with you. But we KNOW Kirk barely knew Pike. Met him ONE time. It's a very popular and well know episode among Trek fans. But now they knew each other for several years. Obi wan not knowing the droids? He said he didn't SEEM to remember owning R2. Not a Retcon at all. Let's not forget how Spock forgot to mention he learned how to Dance from one of Khans descendants 5 years before Khan. . Star wars is pretty much airtight compared to Star Trek. Always has and always will be. They even have stayed consistent with the look throughout.....kudos to the production teams.....

Star Wars isn't Star Trek and never ever should the two be.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Gorn, chapel/spcok, Kirk knowing Pike more than just one meeting ...need i go on..?

When did Kirk ever claim to have met Pike only once?

 

[Noname Given]

When did Kirk ever claim to have met Pike only once?

Never.

 

[Dar70]

Never.

He never said once but it was indeed only once. There is no other way to interpret this scene...

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4:21

As far as I know he's not Fleet Captain yet (not temporary....PROMOTED) in SNW ..and if it was more than once Kirk would have said he collaborated with Pike BEFORE getting the Enterprise....

 

[Noname Given]

He never said once but it was indeed only once. There is no other way to interpret this scene...

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4:21

As far as I know he's not Fleet Captain yet in SNW ..and if it was more than once Kirk would have said he collaborated with Pike BEFORE getting the Enterprise....

Uh huh - that's why Kirk later calls Pike by his first name of "Chris" multiple times later in both parts.

 

[Tuskin38]

But we KNOW Kirk barely knew Pike. Met him ONE time.

There's no evidence of that.

Based on the dialogue in The Menagerie they knew each other well enough that Kirk could call him by the very informal 'Chris'

 

[HotRod]

There is no other way to interpret this scene...

Clearly you're wrong as myself and many others interpret the scene differently from you.

That makes you factually wrong.

 

[Mudd]

He never said once but it was indeed only once. There is no other way to interpret this scene...

There certainly is another way. Particularly as in Part II of that story we'd see Kirk address Pike familiarly as "Chris."

I'm justified in maintaining that there's no way to interpret that other than them being friends.

 

[Dar70]

Clearly you're wrong as myself and many others interpret the scene differently from you.

That makes you factually wrong.

Nope. I'm right. Why would mendez even have to mention what pike looked like and his age to Kirk?? Anyone viewing this for years clearly saw Kirk barely knew Pike. SNW does not change the meaning of this scene me. Kirk met pike when he was fleet Captain. Briefly. End of story....I win....you all lose .....

 

[Turtletrekker]

Clearly you're wrong as myself and many others interpret the scene differently from you.

That makes you factually wrong.

Agreed, but it's like arguing with a flat earther.

 

[Dar70]

There certainly is another way. Particularly as in Part II of that story we'd see Kirk address Pike familiarly as "Chris."

I'm justified in maintaining that there's no way to interpret that other than them being friends.

If they were such good friends why did mendez have to describe him??? I thought Kirk collaborated once with Pike (non alternate reality episode) AND even had a song and dance with Khans great great great great great great grand niece/daughter or whatever..........yet here he is barely knowing Pike....

 

[cooleddie74]

"We met" when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain tells me just one thing: that was their first in-person encounter, not their only one.

 

[fireproof78]

He never said once but it was indeed only once. There is no other way to interpret this scene...

Yes, there is, as offered up by others in this thread.

Diversity of thought; what a novel concept.