Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Nyotarules]

You certainly could change his background, but at a certain point when is he no longer James Bond, but a new character with the same name? He's not the blank slate April is. I don't know where that line is. I do know that making a new character and putting a legacy name on them to ensure box office performance is intellectually dishonest.



Wouldn't that mean Black Panther is not a diverse movie, as the vast majority of the cast are the same race?

Spoiler

So you expecting the next Bond to forget he died and that he has a daughter? How would that affect the character?

Each new incarnation of Bond changed the character and the audience accepted those changes, why, because the performers were all white?
No, Black Panther is not a diverse movie, the fact it was a cultural phenomena reveals something about the society that produced it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Boba spoilers

Spoiler

Except he actually had a lot of character that the show didn't touch on, even after Disney's reboot. He blames the clones/Empire for helping the Jedi kill his dad. He hates Jedi for killing his dad. Neither is addressed in the show, and in fact Grogu shows up within fighting range of him and nothing comes of it. Fennec Shand outright killed his parental figure Taun We. It's never brought up in the show. Of all the history that Boba had, they literally took a bounty hunter who only interacted with Boba in one episode of the Clone Wars to be his final showdown.

I've seen all the films and shows, thanks.

In The Clone Wars, when Boba vows that he'll never forgive Mace Windu for killing Jango, Boba is still just a boy. Yet even at that point Boba has undergone a fundamental transformation, and he denounces his own recent actions, admitting that he's done "terrible things." (See "Lethal Trackdown.") This is an example that Boba is capable of growth and change for the better, and it occurs at the climax of his second season arc on TCW.

Much time passes between then and The Book of Boba Fett, during which Boba undergoes further transformation as he copes with his circumstances. To demand that in his middle age Boba not reevaluate what he believed when he was a boy would be quite absurd indeed.

If a character cannot change or grow over the course of a story, there is no point in telling stories at all. By your definition, all literature should be little more than Wikipedia articles.

Exactly.

To insist that the beliefs, opinions, and even values of characters not change over the course of a story, much less over the course of multiple stories, is to fossilize them. Unyielding fixtures aren't characters; they're... fixtures.

 

[cooleddie74]

Look at Han. He goes from the way we meet him in Solo and see him in both ANH and ESB to a man much more at ease with himself and willing to be a full part of the Rebellion into which he inserted himself. A devil-may-care rogue just as likely to have a shootout with you in an alley on a planet as engage in negotiations that last more than a few minutes, eventually becoming someone who not only rescinds his outright disbelief of the Force but embraces it as a part of that universe and how it guides both himself and his loved ones.

Han evolved from the streets of Corellia to his final moments on the walkway inside Starkiller Base and enough so that he no longer seems like the same scoundrel.

 

[Yistaan]

Look at Han. He goes from the way we meet him in Solo and see him in both ANH and ESB to a man much more at ease with himself and willing to be a full part of the Rebellion into which he inserted himself. A devil-may-care rogue just as likely to have a shootout with you in an alley on a planet as engage in negotiations that last more than a few minutes, eventually becoming someone who not only rescinds his outright disbelief of the Force but embraces it as a part of that universe and how it guides both himself and his loved ones.

Han evolved from the streets of Corellia to his final moments on the walkway inside Starkiller Base and enough so that he no longer seems like the same scoundrel.

Ironically the Solo movie goes to the heart of my argument about characters not changing organically. The old Han Solo Trilogy books by AC Crispin (also a Trek author I believe) showed Han's change much more naturally. I think I'll just let those works speak in my place since my own clumsy attempts at explaining just seem to get shredded by focusing on my clumsy terminology and I don't do a good job getting my point across.

Somehow by reading these other posts I'm apparently being told that I say that I don't want characters to change or grow at all, which isn't remotely true (I'd like to think I know what I actually mean rather than other posters unless Charles Xavier's going to stand up now)

 

[fireproof78]

Ironically the Solo movie goes to the heart of my argument about characters not changing organically. The old Han Solo Trilogy books by AC Crispin (also a Trek author I believe) showed Han's change much more naturally. I think I'll just let those works speak in my place since my own clumsy attempts at explaining just seem to get shredded by focusing on my clumsy terminology and I don't do a good job getting my point across.

Somehow by reading these other posts I'm apparently being told that I say that I don't want characters to change or grow at all, which isn't remotely true (I'd like to think I know what I actually mean rather than other posters unless Charles Xavier's going to stand up now)

I think it depends on how a person perceives how change occurs. For me, Solo works just fine as an organic development, from street rat (Disney pun intended) to a little rougher smuggler to more jaded as we see in "Star Wars."

So, for me, it's a matter of perception as to what characters changes are organic.

 

[UssGlenn]

So you expecting the next Bond to forget he died and that he has a daughter? How would that affect the character? Each new incarnation of Bond changed the character and the audience accepted those changes, why, because the performaners were all white?

That's a good point, if there was ever a time for major character changes, this would be it. Spoilers, but the way. It's my own fault for getting into a Bond discussion before seeing the last movie (I already knew he died, though). Point of order, Craig was the only changed character (and we all remember how controversial a Blond Bond was), all the previous Bonds were the same guy, and married Tracy in OHMSS, ect. I expect a hard reset with each actor may very well be the standard from here on out, though I could totally see them pulling a Dench and keeping other actors.

 

[Belz...]

How precise are we talking?

What a strange question. Fundamentals are NOT precise. That's the whole point.

 

[mswood]

For everyone who feels April should have the same skin tones in Live action, why aren't you complaining about how Spock has significantly different skin tone, yet Peck doesn't match that at all?

 

[fireproof78]

For everyone who feels April should have the same skin tones in Live action, why aren't you complaining about how Spock has significantly different skin tone, yet Peck doesn't match that at all?

Double standards.

That's the only reason.

 

[Mudd]

We've discussed the various caveats attached to Rotten Tomatoes and why it's not a particularly reliable gauge of critical opinion (and no, it's not because "the haters game it."). Still, it's kind of nice to see that based on the handful of early reviews that they've tabulated, SNW has a Critics Rating of 100% Fresh.

I'm sure the audience ratings will have at least a little less consensus, especially when fans start noticing things like a door being painted the wrong color in Sickbay.

 

[NCC-73515]

The TOS characters also had white sclerae (unlike in TAS) and more than just one (very wide) tooth!
It just occurred to me that black-to-white skin changes happen in the real world - April could simply have the same condition MJ had

The Klingon Captain Kor as depicted in TOS:

The same Klingon, Kor in DS9:

Yep, can't tell a difference here...LOVE the attention to the characters visual consistency.

This was of course not a contradiction anymore since ENT S4

 

[valkyrie013]

You get phrases likes this because in some people's subconscious, they truly believe white people are the default humans and everyone else is diverse....(sigh I wish Wakanda was a real place, I would migrate tomorrow!)

Huh? How'd you reach that from my post?? Grand Canyon leap.. Hope it was a super hero landing..

The default FOR THIS EXAMPLE Is.. uh.. white.. as he was drawn and colored as white in TAS.

@Noname Given
So.. same person plays his role in better makeup.. and examples of Trill.. Not an Apples to Apples comparison, more like Apple to a lady bug.. But i do agree, make up, etc. do change, even in the same series.

I always look at things in the reverse, so example, if April was black in TAS and he was cast with a white person in the live action, Most of ya'll would be pissed, as would I, if he was black in TAS, why are they whitewashing him? So, I'm just being the consistant when it concerns any race/gender etc. being changed. Thats it. I was Apoplectic when Scarlett Johanson was cast as Motoko Kusinagi in Ghost in the Shell, and a few other examples.

 

[Mudd]

The default FOR THIS EXAMPLE Is.. uh.. white.. as he was drawn and colored as white in TAS.

So what?

 

[valkyrie013]

https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id917932200?pt=39040802&ct=Media1GIFV2&mt=8

So what?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

So what, so what?
Well, who cares, who cares what you do?
Yeah, who cares, who cares about you?
You, you, you, you

Good song!

 

[mswood]

God forbid anyone goes to the theatre, and have an actor have to get replaced mid performance with their understudy....

 

[Belz...]

So what, so what?
Well, who cares, who cares what you do?
Yeah, who cares, who cares about you?
You, you, you, you

Good song!

But terrible dodge.

 

[fireproof78]

God forbid anyone goes to the theatre, and have an actor have to get replaced mid performance with their understudy....

The whole play is in an alternate dimension!

New York must be full of multiverses!

 

[Harpsichord]

I always look at things in the reverse, so example, if April was black in TAS and he was cast with a white person in the live action

No wonder your takes are so bad, this is a dumb as dogshit way of looking at it!

 

[valkyrie013]

But terrible dodge.

Uh.. what dodge? I've had many a post lamenting my side, and he just apparently.. doesn't care, so.. I don't care.. he reminded me of a good song..

 

[valkyrie013]

No wonder your takes are so bad, this is a dumb as dogshit way of looking at it!

\
Huh? Its actually a good way to look at things, may want to try it, its great for racism.. Say X at a black person, your a racist, Say comparable X to a white person, its looked upon as okay not racist.. No, both are not okay.. both are racist So, It works!