Q is the biggest WTF for me in Trek when people complain about gods and fate.
Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
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^ And you literally get fans around here asking, "When Picard got into Situation X, why didn't he call Q for help!?!" So...they want Picard to solve his problems by praying to God, basically.
Who knew that Star Trek would have arguments about "It's the wrong god!"
Well, uh, I pretty much hated Q as a concept and as a character. "Humanity on trial!" was a played-out trope before Q appeared in 1987. And yes, I immediately knew he was supposed to be a surrogate for god.
Only De Lancie's not insignificant charm saved it for me.
Also called the "Where's Superman Scenario"
On that particular front: I agree with you about DS9, but only 75% agree with you about BSG (three seasons out of four). I prefer that interpretation be left up to the viewer.
You're not wrong, but...
This is the reason I'm not too broken up about the original plans for Season 2 being abandoned.
Did you ever notice how you never see Picard and Superman together...?
As soon as it was established that the Red Angel was someone in a mechanical suit, there was no reason to pursue the faith side of it any longer, regardless of how one might view what was going on in the show's writers' room.
DS9 was full of that between "The Prophets" and "The Pa Wraiths"
Q is not god. He is an extremely advance being who violates the "Prime Directive" by experimenting with, and altering the history of a less advanced civilization. He's the proof that their is no god and proof (in universe for the 3rd or 4th time) that some of the outrageous, fantastical bullshit in religions could have actually happened because advanced organisms mastered the science to orchestrate them. Picard never thought he was a god, just an asshole.
“You are NOT God! ... The universe is not so badly designed!” -Picard to Q 
A fictional character is proof that there is no god? O_o
Pretty sure the two are not mutually exclusive, depending on one's point of view.
Regardless, even if Picard didn't regard him as a god he is certainly presented as such to the audience. Sitting on high, judging, testing humanity, determining their fate.
He's either a god or Santa Claus.
Is it really "faith" when the followers of a religion actually have empirical evidence that their gods actually exist?
Exactly. Science vs. faith damn near always fails to provide a good payout. The show either needs to completely debunk the faith-related elements to explain why things happened the way they did, scientifically or, as you say, go the "God did it" route which pretty much just amounts to a big fat old. Going either way is likely to piss off some large chunk of the viewership. And then, yes, there's NuBSG's sit-on-the-fence ambiguity on the topic that embarrassingly reveals they never had a "plan" to begin with.
I think science versus faith can be done well. But it's important to have it not be a story about ideas, but a story about people. In the end we want a story with relatable characters, which means people fumbling around in the darkness just like us trying to figure things out. That's why - for example - Kira being someone who was deeply religious never in any way detracted from DS9. We experienced faith through her as a character, not through a lot of explicitly magical woo. I mean, there was some terrible stuff with the Pah Wraiths of course, but that wasn't about "faith" per se, except in an episode like Covenant (which was the one time they were used quite well as a concept).
Because no one fell down and worshiped Q, or even was in awe of him. He was treated as a threat, and then a joke, but not once as a deity. Part of humanity being "more evolved" in Trek is that characters are generally speaking credulous when presented with scenarios which seem to violate the laws of physics.
And what distinguishes the unseen "God" on nuBSG from Q? He doesn't appear in person and name himself.
That one higher being was the object of worship doesn't mean that he's any more or less a real god than Q is.
Manipulative higher beings who name themselves and make their intentions known: Perfectly fine in sci fi.
Manipulative higher beings who remain enigmatic and are worshipped by beings who don't understand them: Unacceptable in sci fi!
What does God need with a Starship?
With Q and other Godlike beings in Trek I think we are suppose to assume that that they once were like us and simply evolved into the powerful beings they become. Trek has always had this idea that all evolution leads to being powerful like the Q except for that one Voyager episode we all know about where I future is returning to the pleasure of the mulk. With the God in Battlestar I think we are suppose to think they were always divine from the start. Though not interesting enough not all knowing. Even in the future Head SX and Head Baltar are talking about the humans future in away that clearly indicates they don't know what it will be. So maybe the answer to a all knowing God and they themselves are more angels or maybe they are saying you can have a God with flaws and who isn't all knowing and all powerful. Even a real God has limits.
Jason
Jason
Back to DS9, Kasidy said that her mother wanted Sisko and her to be married by a Minister. So human religion isn't completely dead even by the late 24th century. I'm assuming minister was intended to be the religious kind obviously.
And people still say things like "God help us all" (Sisko says it in one episode), though even in the modern day I know atheists that will say that or other similar religious originated phrases (I'm one of them)
And people still say things like "God help us all" (Sisko says it in one episode), though even in the modern day I know atheists that will say that or other similar religious originated phrases (I'm one of them)
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Even Roddenberry, with his very atheist stance, figured that religion would just be a more private thing rather than a large public thing.
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