Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Orphalesion]

The kelvin kirk seems initially more immature but empathetic toward others, likely form the added trauma in the kelvin timeline is making him act out more because he is more hurt/damaged and wanting to protect others more. Didn't they imply in that he had a better safety record for crew deaths, which considering red shirt syndrome in TOS would be possibly the biggest change in overall effect. Along with the main spock mindmeld how much transference from spocks vision of his kirk changed him as well because that kirk could eventually admit his pain, if only because he survived it maybe kelvin kirk could do things differently. Kelvin kirk sure risks himself more to directly protect others/his crew than the main kirk ever had opportunity to do because he is more of a rebel against the machine.

Maybe.

I think it's a lot because Kelvin Kirk was written in the 2000s/2010s rather than the 1960s. Look at the difference in character between the 1960s Pike and Discovery Pike.
It's more acceptable these days for male characters on TV to show more emotion and empathy.

That's kinda why I don't want Boyce to be on SNW, he's like the epitome of that 1960s "manly men" bullshit.
"Ah man tells his barkeep things he'd never tell his Doctor" Ugh, screw that emotionally repressed stone age crap!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Ah man tells his barkeep things he'd never tell his Doctor"

Makes sense.

Ugh, screw that stone age crap!

Stone age? What's "stone age" about Boyce? He's a doctor, he's Pike's best friend, and he has enough command experience that he's included in the briefings for the senior staff. Nothing "stone age" about any of that.

And Boyce was definitely not lacking in emotion or empathy.

Get a good enough actor (ideally, one named John Slattery) and Boyce would fit in 100% with the spirit that DSC and SNW have going with Pike.

 

[fireproof78]

That's kinda why I don't want Boyce to be on SNW, he's like the epitome of that 1960s "manly men" bullshit.
"Ah man tells his barkeep things he'd never tell his Doctor" Ugh, screw that emotionally repressed stone age crap!

There is nothing about that scene that says that. I would argue the opposite.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I think it's a lot because Kelvin Kirk was written in the 2000s/2010s rather than the 1960s. Look at the difference in character between the 1960s Pike and Discovery Pike.
It's more acceptable these days for male characters on TV to show more emotion and empathy.

That's kinda why I don't want Boyce to be on SNW, he's like the epitome of that 1960s "manly men" bullshit.
"Ah man tells his barkeep things he'd never tell his Doctor" Ugh, screw that emotionally repressed stone age crap!

We must have watched different episodes. Pike was lamenting the recent loss of crew members - a traumatic event in the life of any commander. He was also questioning his career as a Starfleet Captain, no longer sure if he wanted the responsibility of command, and pretty sure he wanted to never send letters of condolence to the families of the fallen. Boyce was lending a concerned ear, serving precisely in the role as ship’s counselor/therapist.

Pretty emotionally heavy stuff to me. If anything, for years I felt he should have sucked it up and stopped complaining. I don’t recall Kirk ever whining about being in command of nearly twice the crew size that Pike had, with all the responsibility associated to it, even after losing 20 red shirts on any given mission.

No “Stone Age crap” whatsoever here. Quite the opposite, actually. YMMV.

 

[Captain Fine]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned, but on Monday the Ontario government announced that the City of Toronto and the Region of Peel (CBS Stages Canada is located in Mississauga, which is in Peel Region) can officially moved into Stage 2 of reopening. Stage 2 includes "Film and television production activities, with limits to enable physical distancing".

Source: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-...l-region-to-enter-stage-2-this-week-1.4994146

So I wonder if this means post production on Discovery can continue/complete and SNW can get into gear?

 

[Commander Richard]

Kirk has likely slept with beings with genitals that we aren't physically capable of imagining and if you saw them you would lose your mind like you just stared at Cthulhu. Kirk however thought they were hot.

That said, he and Spock had sex at least once just for the hell of it.

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[Orphalesion]

We must have watched different episodes. Pike was lamenting the recent loss of crew members - a traumatic event in the life of any commander. He was also questioning his career as a Starfleet Captain, no longer sure if he wanted the responsibility of command, and pretty sure he wanted to never send letters of condolence to the families of the fallen. Boyce was lending a concerned ear, serving precisely in the role as ship’s counselor/therapist.

Pretty emotionally heavy stuff to me. If anything, for years I felt he should have sucked it up and stopped complaining. I don’t recall Kirk ever whining about being in command of nearly twice the crew size that Pike had, with all the responsibility associated to it, even after losing 20 red shirts on any given mission.

No “Stone Age crap” whatsoever here. Quite the opposite, actually. YMMV.

My reaction is solely to the suggestion that they need to drink in order to talk about emotional stuff.
And Boyce didn't say he was there as Pike's "friend" or "confidant", he said bartender, further enforcing that idea.

 

[fireproof78]

My reaction is solely to the suggestion that they need to drink in order to talk about emotional stuff.
And Boyce didn't say he was there as Pike's "friend" or "confidant", he said bartender, further enforcing that idea.

Strikes me as pretty much what I see in most shows. It's a trope to be sure but that's what a bartender is treated as-a confidant who listens.

I just don't see the "stone age crap" that is being reported here. In fact, we have a similar scene with Kirk and McCoy in Star Trek Beyond. You know...the Kirk who

was written in the 2000s/2010s rather than the 1960s.

Who has been accused of being a "frat boy jerk" and has a drink with McCoy to commiserate on his birthday. Or a similar scene in TWOK.

I still see the "drink trope" in media. I don't think it has changed much.

 

[NCC-73515]

Guinan, the bartender, was a great listener as well, so Boyce is in good company

 

[137th Gebirg]

My reaction is solely to the suggestion that they need to drink in order to talk about emotional stuff.
And Boyce didn't say he was there as Pike's "friend" or "confidant", he said bartender, further enforcing that idea.

Yeah... there's a little thing called "subtext" there. Based on your earlier screed, methinks you just didn't want to see it, and only wanted to see the "cavemen" grunting at each other.

Guinan, the bartender, was a great listener as well, so Boyce is in good company

Precisely.

I still see the "drink trope" in media. I don't think it has changed much.

Yup.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don’t recall Kirk ever whining about being in command of nearly twice the crew size that Pike had, with all the responsibility associated to it, even after losing 20 red shirts on any given mission.

Kirk did lament the level of responsibility on his shoulders in Balance of Terror.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned, but on Monday the Ontario government announced that the City of Toronto and the Region of Peel (CBS Stages Canada is located in Mississauga, which is in Peel Region) can officially moved into Stage 2 of reopening. Stage 2 includes "Film and television production activities, with limits to enable physical distancing".

Source: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-...l-region-to-enter-stage-2-this-week-1.4994146

So I wonder if this means post production on Discovery can continue/complete and SNW can get into gear?

The situation isn't quite as clear cut as that. As we see over in California, even though the state's government has authorized TV and film production to begin again, there's many labour unions involved which are refusing to work until such time as they feel it's safe to. Now, granted, post production of Disco should be okay, they've been doing that from home since the lockdowns started anyway, so returning to a physical distanced office setting shouldn't be much of a problem, but it could still be a while yet before SNW starts filming.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Kirk did lament the level of responsibility on his shoulders in Balance of Terror.

Fair enough - I stand corrected.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Fair enough - I stand corrected.

Isn't his "no beach to walk on " speech a lament about the burden of command?

 

[Orphalesion]

Based on your earlier screed, methinks you just didn't want to see it, and only wanted to see the "cavemen" grunting at each other.

No, I think it's not a question of "wanting", but just "not be able to", but in the sense because my own preconceptions cause me to react negatively to that specific scene and so I am unable to take anything else from it., due to my own hangups and history.
Makes sense?
I was going to write that I have no idea and cannot possible answer how I would have reacted to Boyce if that scene had just been a little bit different, just like I'm unable to tell what I actually think of Picard (the show) just because there's some elements that cause me to shut it out.
That's just something I sturggle with.

has a drink with McCoy to commiserate on his birthday.
QUOTE]

That's not quite the same, I'm not against characters drinking at all. I just interpreted the scene with Boyce and Pike as saying that men can only talk about their problems/issues/emotions if they get sloshed while doing so.
But I conceded that it might very well be my issues again that cause me to interpret it that way.
You know you and me had that conversation about Rios and Raffi in Picard. It's a similar situation here.

 

[fireproof78]

That's not quite the same, I'm not against characters drinking at all. I just interpreted the scene with Boyce and Pike as saying that men can only talk about their problems/issues/emotions if they get sloshed while doing so.
But I conceded that it might very well be my issues again that cause me to interpret it that way.
You know you and me had that conversation about Rios and Raffi in Picard. It's a similar situation here.

I respect your acknowledgement of personal interpretation. I'll not double down but simply acknowledge that so much of current media still uses the "drink to talk" type of stereotype, that I find it rather odd to say that it is a cultural artifact of the time when I see it across Trek and contemporary shows.

I think Boyce and Pike could be translated very easily in to contemporary media with only minor changes.

 

[Orphalesion]

I respect your acknowledgement of personal interpretation. I'll not double down but simply acknowledge that so much of current media still uses the "drink to talk" type of stereotype, that I find it rather odd to say that it is a cultural artifact of the time when I see it across Trek and contemporary shows.

I think Boyce and Pike could be translated very easily in to contemporary media with only minor changes.

It's probably just me wanting to banish something into the past and rationalizing it as an artifact while making myself ignore contemporary examples, coupled with my worries that I might not be able to enjoy SNW if it ends up too much like that.

 

[fireproof78]

It's probably just me wanting to banish something into the past and rationalizing it as an artifact while making myself ignore contemporary examples, coupled with my worries that I might not be able to enjoy SNW if it ends up too much like that.

That's fair. I don't think SNW will end up like that at all. Personally, I hope that Boyce doesn't make it in.

 

[Borgminister]

What about Beyonce?

 

[fireproof78]

What about Beyonce?

 

[Borgminister]

!