Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[fireproof78]

Hell, so does Star Wars. The Sequels might have tried to put on a veneer of originality but the First Order was just the Empire 2.0 right down to the very similar uniforms and organizational symbol, Snoke was just the Emperor 2.0 and Kylo Ren was the next Skywalker to fall to the Dark Side and pledge himself to dark teachings and conquering the galaxy. All popular franchises either repeat themselves ad nauseam or even when they try to do something new it's always with a healthy spoonful of nostalgia to remind you that the new villains are just the old ones with new names and different clothes.

This is true and given how fan bases react to any sort of change it is to be expected at a certain level. However, for me, I won't give production teams props for bringing in identifiable characters as some how proof of fan status. Give me interesting characters (thankfully the Sequels did, Discovery did. Picard kind of did).

I don’t really disagree, but I think fans should expect more from long running properties.

I'm not so sure any more. Audiences keep rewarding nostalgia.

 

[cooleddie74]

Maybe so but Hollywood likes beating the same formula to death just to maximize box office and viewership. We couldn't even get two movies into the Kelvin Timeline before we literally brought back Khan and the legendary scream scene from TWOK, just with Spock doing it now instead of Kirk. Indiana Jones actually tried to do something new and unconventional with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull but the audience couldn't stop complaining about how "aliens and UFOs don't belong" in a movie franchise that has had the Ark of the Covenant, a mystical stone and the Holy Grail.

When Hollywood does try to shake things up it frequently gets pissed on by the audience. The hardcore purists and gatekeepers.

 

[Jayson1]

TNG played on TOS's popularity to launch itself even if Gene pretended he was ignoring it as much as possible. All Trek series are one degree or another of fanwank.

Not Ds9. Except for Chief O'Brien and Worf and using aliens created on TNG and having Picard in pilot episode and several TNG characters crossover and and showing several Galaxy Class ships and also sometimes TNG uniforms and using same tech and props created on TNG and having Siskos backstory linked to the time Picard wad Locutus but other than that not a thing. It relied completely on itself.

 

[cooleddie74]

Right down to Starfleet being original!

 

[fireproof78]

Right down to Starfleet being original!

Starfleet was completely original. As was Section 31 and we know that worked out great!

 

[Noname Given]

TNG played on TOS's popularity to launch itself even if Gene pretended he was ignoring it as much as possible. All Trek series are one degree or another of fanwank.

Yeah, right. GR did a wonderful job of ignoring TOS early on...oh, wait...

That's why every Trek fan who watched the TNG pilot episode "Encounter At Farpoint" was saying - "Look it's Squire Trelaine all grown up..." not to mention the cameo of a 137 year old "Admiral McCoy" who ventured on another starship out to the (then) edge of Federation space) aka Farpoint Station just so he could tour the "Medical Layout" of the 1701-D.

Then there's the first 'regular' episode "The Naked Now" which was a piss poor remake of TOS S1 "The Naked Time" -- and directly mentioned BOTH the original 1701 Enterprise and Captain James T. Kirk by name as well...

Then there was the fact that during the first season of TNG - practically EVERY shot of an episode had TOS props in the background, or models of TOS era ships or the class F shuttlecraft model...(feel free to go back and look at some of those first season episodes, if you can stand the horrible writing in them...I can't anymore...)

For trying to ignore TOS early on, GR did a piss poor job at that (IMO).

 

[cooleddie74]

Yep. Gene was great at making people believe he was making all-new product when he wasn't.

 

[cooleddie74]

Starfleet was completely original. As was Section 31 and we know that worked out great!

It did until it reached STID and DSC.

 

[137th Gebirg]

TOS Starfleet: "I'm a soldier" -Kirk
TNG Starfleet: Not military

TOS Economy: Credits
TNG Economy: No money

TOS Characters: Full of conflict and flaws - even..."Race Hatred"
TNG Characters: No conflict between main cast members whatsoever

There are others, to be sure, but those are the biggest takeaways. Gene was definitely into his revisionism.

 

[cooleddie74]

While still milking TOS for everything he could without turning TNG into a TOS tribute series. And then saying the show stood on its own and the past was in the past.

 

[fireproof78]

It did until it reached STID and DSC.

Not really, no.

 

[cooleddie74]

To each their own. It never bothered me in the first two series but it got tiresome and fast starting with the Kelvin Timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

To each their own. It never bothered me in the first two series but it got tiresome and fast starting with the Kelvin Timeline.

It got tiresome and fast in ENT. ID didn't bother me because it made sense in terms of how Starfleet might respond to this massive threat is immediately weaponize an asset that will assure victory. Discovery strains a bit, but only so far as this whole stupid AI thing. The idea that they were more operation, got burned, and splintered is both interesting, and makes sense to me.

Mileage, etc.

 

[Jayson1]

To be fair TNG was a big departure in both tone and style to TOS. Everything up to the Kelvinverse movies all felt very connected to TNG more than TNG felt counted to TOS. I mean of course it had some and even had more as time went on but like it's been pointed out Rick Berman also hated TOS and you can kind of see it.

 

[fireproof78]

To be fair TNG was a big departure in both tone and style to TOS. Everything up to the Kelvinverse movies all felt very connected to TNG more than TNG felt counted to TOS. I mean of course it had some and even had more as time went on but like it's been pointed out Rick Berman also hated TOS and you can kind of see it.

I do and I don't, since we got some decent TOS nods with Relics and a direct tie in with Unification and TUC. But, overall, yes, TNG was a huge departure from TOS and the inclusion of McCoy in Farpoint was terrible. It basically said "Totally connected everyone" while Riker gets the new Enterprise explained to him and how all the features that worked.

I think TNG managed to do its own thing eventually but that difference in tone was enough to leave limited interest for me. Of course, then everyone thought TOS was wrong because it wasn't like TNG-DS9-VOY which all had very connected tissue throughout.

 

[Mudd]

To be fair TNG was a big departure in both tone and style to TOS. Everything up to the Kelvinverse movies all felt very connected to TNG more than TNG felt counted to TOS. I mean of course it had some and even had more as time went on but like it's been pointed out Rick Berman also hated TOS and you can kind of see it.

 

[Amasov]

Yeah, right. GR did a wonderful job of ignoring TOS early on...oh, wait...

That's why every Trek fan who watched the TNG pilot episode "Encounter At Farpoint" was saying - "Look it's Squire Trelaine all grown up..." not to mention the cameo of a 137 year old "Admiral McCoy" who ventured on another starship out to the (then) edge of Federation space) aka Farpoint Station just so he could tour the "Medical Layout" of the 1701-D.

Then there's the first 'regular' episode "The Naked Now" which was a piss poor remake of TOS S1 "The Naked Time" -- and directly mentioned BOTH the original 1701 Enterprise and Captain James T. Kirk by name as well...

Then there was the fact that during the first season of TNG - practically EVERY shot of an episode had TOS props in the background, or models of TOS era ships or the class F shuttlecraft model...(feel free to go back and look at some of those first season episodes, if you can stand the horrible writing in them...I can't anymore...)

For trying to ignore TOS early on, GR did a piss poor job at that (IMO).

The first season of TNG also mimics a similar production style to TOS; particularly during a dramatic moment or reveal, the way the music would just sweep into the scene in a dramatic stinger, the same way it would on TOS. It even had the TOS campiness -- especially with the overuse of obvious soundstages for what were supposed to be planet exteriors. There's very little location shooting in the first season of the show. So, while TNG may have been the more modern Trek at the time, it still had that TOS vibe about it.

 

[eschaton]

The first season of TNG also mimics a similar production style to TOS; particularly during a dramatic moment or reveal, the way the music would just sweep into the scene in a dramatic stinger, the same way it would on TOS. It even had the TOS campiness -- especially with the overuse of obvious soundstages for what were supposed to be planet exteriors. There's very little location shooting in the first season of the show. So, while TNG may have been the more modern Trek at the time, it still had that TOS vibe about it.

Yeah. A few years back I watched all of Trek in canon order, and it's in a lot of ways a very smooth transition from TOS Season 3 to TNG Season 1.

TNG became a much better series once it realized that it didn't have to just do TOS stories with a different cast.

 

[cooleddie74]

It is amusing how Gene said he was going out of his way to distance himself from TOS and make TNG it's own thing but used so many visual callbacks and similar filming methods to 20 years earlier. He wanted his cake and to eat it as well and I guess he got it, but this is just one more reason why I take what Gene said with a grain of salt. It often didn't make sense and was ignored by those around him in positions of authority, it changed with time or there was always another agenda.

Like just outright declaring TFF and TUC to be non-canon. Sorry, Gene, you didn't get to choose that.

 

[Mudd]

Well, according to TrekCentral:

Actress Gia Sandhu will play 'T'Pring' in 3 episodes of 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds! It's highly likely that this is the same vulcan T'Pring from TOS episode 'Amok Time'! T'Pring, who was bonded to Spock, was originally played by Arlene Martel.

I really don't know how reliable the site is.