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Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x02 – “Beta Test”

Rate the episode...

  • 10 - Excellent.

    Votes: 4 5.9%
  • 9

    Votes: 15 22.1%
  • 8

    Votes: 24 35.3%
  • 7

    Votes: 12 17.6%
  • 6

    Votes: 6 8.8%
  • 5

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • 4

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • 2

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • 1 - Terrible.

    Votes: 2 2.9%

  • Total voters
    68
You know the worst thing about this story?

The same plot could have taken place open seas in the 1600s.

Imagine it as British Fleet vs Privateers. You'd barely need any changes.

This not a sci-fi show, it's just in a sci-fi setting.
Okay, I know you're done with Star Trek, and that's fine, but this is your critique? Are you serious? Gene Roddenberry based Star Trek, in part, on Horatio Hornblower. And there's no way you don't know that.

Of all the things you could've come up with to criticize SFA, that's what you come up with? Don't take this the wrong way, but you should've followed your own advice from the previous thread when you quoted Scotty.
 
Erm, unusual strong disagree here. Star Trek can do and did a lot of "real sci-fi", in TOS & TNG the most. From TNG's time-travel episodes which are really more "puzzles" dissecting specific scenarios, to TOS' civilisations being taken over by computers, from M5 to a treasure of Armageddon, and things like Prof Moriarty, the Borg, parallel universe and holodecks are not really "allegory" material, but genuine sci-fi concepts.

What Star Trek can't do any more is "hard SF". Human-like aliens, half-aliens, force-field shields were realistic at the time of their inception, but not really up to date anymore. Trek is know like a superhero universe in this regard - which also vary wildly from character-based to conceptual.

I agree that Trek did do real sci-fi for its time in the past. But the problem is it's an established setting with its own worldbuilding now, which really doesn't jibe well with most sci-fi premises. Whereas early on, there was that flexibility, as lore was thin and something new could be done in every episode. You just can't end up doing something like what Larry Niven did in TAS and just porting over an existing sci-fi short story any longer. Something has to be a Trek story, which means that most sci-fi story concepts (which are premise based) no longer work within the universe.

And I think that's 100% fine. But the more Trek lore has deepened, the easier it's been to build stories on the foundation of other Trek, rather than "what if we ported this sci-fi idea into Trek?" The last time I think Trek did this was in PIC Season 1, swiping Mass Effect's super intelligent, super-secret AI race which wanted to genocide all organics. And honestly, the less said about the end of PIC Season 1, the better.
 
No one asked for The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager.....
Correct. The "nobody asked for" argument is lame as hell. And I can confirm that in 1992 not a single person "asked for" a Star Trek show set on a space station, and indeed, predicted its failure before it even premiered.

All this has happened before and all this will happen again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
I agree that Trek did do real sci-fi for its time in the past. But the problem is it's an established setting with its own worldbuilding now, which really doesn't jibe well with most sci-fi premises. Whereas early on, there was that flexibility, as lore was thin and something new could be done in every episode. You just can't end up doing something like what Larry Niven did in TAS and just porting over an existing sci-fi short story any longer. Something has to be a Trek story, which means that most sci-fi story concepts (which are premise based) no longer work within the universe.

And I think that's 100% fine. But the more Trek lore has deepened, the easier it's been to build stories on the foundation of other Trek, rather than "what if we ported this sci-fi idea into Trek?" The last time I think Trek did this was in PIC Season 1, swiping Mass Effect's super intelligent, super-secret AI race which wanted to genocide all organics. And honestly, the less said about the end of PIC Season 1, the better.
I think that really depends on the writing. It's true that the current iteration of people behind the scenes don't want or can't do. They seem to be eternally trapped by canon & conventions in their storytelling, even when they try to outright run away from them.

But SNW, with it's episodic nature, is the living proof that it could be done, if anyone wanted to. Hell SNW came reasonably close to it several times (I have a soft spot for Lotus Eaters for example).

I agree Star Trek can't adapt hard-SF stories, that depend on the hard technology, or first-contact stories where humans meet aliens the first time. But they couldn't even before either. And IMO every "soft" SF story could easily be adapted into Trek. Hell, half of them might have been inspired by Trek in the first place...
 
And IMO every "soft" SF story could easily be adapted into Trek. Hell, half of them might have been inspired by Trek in the first place...

The problem with the Trek universe is in part due to its crystallization during the TOS era, and in part due to the desire to be relatable, a lot of plausible options are just not something that will happen to humanity, though we can see them elsewhere.
  • Where are the super-advanced aliens? The galaxy is over 13 billion years old, and in the Trekverse, is full of life. Surely there should be races which have been spacefaring for tens of thousands, even millions of years. Yet every race is at roughly the same tech level as the Federation - whatever the Federation's tech level is. Or else long-since dead or ascended into energy beings.
  • Kardashev Type II races seem quite rare. All this time, and only one Dyson sphere we never saw again. Why aren't there planetary-scale (or larger) megastructures everywhere?
  • Posthumanism is a one-off thing, but doesn't impact the mainstream of society. We've met cybernetically augmented humans, and genetic augments, but they're exceptions to the rule, with most folks ordinary, baseline humans.
  • While true AI exists, it's treated again as a one-off curiosity. Humans still do not only most of the intellectual, but most of the physical labor. True super-intelligent AI seems to be rare, if not entirely absent.
  • We already live in a society where technological surveillance is becoming omnipresent. Yet in the Trekverse, it seems like people can escape from brigs and pull off murders without any recordings of their behavior.
This is just off the top of my head. I know there's more out there.
 
The problem with the Trek universe is in part due to its crystallization during the TOS era, and in part due to the desire to be relatable, a lot of plausible options are just not something that will happen to humanity, though we can see them elsewhere.
Well Trek got an established continuity. Same way you cannot do time travel in Star Wars, you can't do all type of stories in Star Trek. But you can really do a lot.

  • Where are the super-advanced aliens? The galaxy is over 13 billion years old, and in the Trekverse, is full of life. Surely there should be races which have been spacefaring for tens of thousands, even millions of years. Yet every race is at roughly the same tech level as the Federation - whatever the Federation's tech level is. Or else long-since dead or ascended into energy beings.
Why? I mean, why don't we have more different levels of development in Earth? Where are our Viking societies, our Wakandas? Why is every country that starts to develop almost immediately very close behind the currently most advanced country they do trade with?

  • Kardashev Type II races seem quite rare. All this time, and only one Dyson sphere we never saw again. Why aren't there planetary-scale (or larger) megastructures everywhere?

Why would anyone want to build a Kardashev Type 2 society? What would they use this energy up for? The most advanced Trek societies are already post-scarcity with replicators & unlimited energy. No need to completely destroy their living environment just got the lulz. We don't built pyramids anymore. Even though we could.

  • Posthumanism is a one-off thing, but doesn't impact the mainstream of society. We've met cybernetically augmented humans, and genetic augments, but they're exceptions to the rule, with most folks ordinary, baseline humans.
Why isn't everyone wearing Google glasses and taking steroids right now?
Maybe it's just not a catch-all solution, but only for specific purposes, and the human body is already quite optimized for what it's doing, and tinkering with it when you don't have to do it (e.g. in case of diseases or injuries) just fucks up too many other parts in this delicate balance so that you have to cascade your tinkering to address unforeseen consequences, again and again. until it all becomes a mess?

  • While true AI exists, it's treated again as a one-off curiosity. Humans still do not only most of the intellectual, but most of the physical labor. True super-intelligent AI seems to be rare, if not entirely absent.

It's true that Trek never had a true singularity. But that is an "endpoint" in most sci-fi stories as well (OR it's just a "computer overlord to be defeated"). Right now there is just not a lot of interesting stories about this - even outside Trek - because it's just hard to imagine or predict.

For that "one-off" AIs - well, everyone has ChatGTP right now, but I'm still doing Excel stuff at my office. And... If I suddenly weren't dependant on salary for living anymore - I still would do something, could be my office job, could be viticulture. Who knows.
Trek is post scarcity, implying a majority of work is done by machines in the background, we just don't ever see them. It's probably not robots though, more like giant reactors powering giant replicator factories, beaming their products all over the planet.
All "jobs" we see on Star Trek are essentially full-time "hobbies" or "duty/service".

  • We already live in a society where technological surveillance is becoming omnipresent. Yet in the Trekverse, it seems like people can escape from brigs and pull off murders without any recordings of their behavior.
That's because the Federation signed the European Unions data privacy collection law - like all advanced societies should!

This is just off the top of my head. I know there's more out there.

Cool list. Valid points. But you can probably never have a franchise addressing several of these at once, because any one of them would destroy your worldbuilding for "normal" sci-fi stories. They would all have to be one-off sci-fi stories. Which are also pretty cool. But just not franchise-material.
 
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These days it's more of a won't than a can't.
If they ever do time travel on Star Wars in a serious capacity (and not just some force vision stuff) - YouTube will form a singularity and turn into a black hole, eating it's way trough to the planets core and destroying all life as we know it.
 
If they ever do time travel on Star Wars in a serious capacity (and not just some force vision stuff) - YouTube will form a singularity and turn into a black hole, eating it's way trough to the planets core and destroying all life as we know it.
Too late. That's been happening ever since Rebels Season 4 introduced the World Between Worlds.
Even though that's not how the WBW works, people still claim it does.
 
Why? I mean, why don't we have more different levels of development in Earth? Where are our Viking societies, our Wakandas? Why is every country that starts to develop almost immediately very close behind the currently most advanced country they do trade with?

This is a situation where the logic doesn't work, since all humans evolved from a common ancestor (minus some archaic DNA here and there) about 100,000 years ago. For a Trek like scenario, we'd need to have like tool-using crows, elephants, octopus, and dolphins all sharing the earth, who somehow had their own industrial revolutions within no more than a thousand years of one another.

Deep time is really, really deep, man. There were probably inhabitable planets in the galaxy which existed long before the sun even formed. Having races that exist for millions/billions of years seems implausible to us, because we're so new. But we're arguing from a sample size of one.

Also, there are plenty of uncontacted tribes left (Andamanese, Papuan highlanders, some groups in the Amazon) who still either live as hunter-gatherers or neolithic levels, as we're enforcing a "prime directive" against them. The rest of the world all talks to one another. The galaxy doesn't seem to work like that in Star Trek - certainly not in the 24th century, and probably not the 32nd either.

Why would anyone want to build a Kardashev Type 2 society? What would they use this energy up for? The most advanced Trek societies are already post-scarcity with replicators & unlimited energy. No need to completely destroy their living environment just got the lulz.

You could build a computer with the mass of Jupiter, and use the raw computing power to generate a near infinite number of AI clones of people who may have existed, effectively resurrecting the dead, for one. Indeed, a lot of people now argue that it's more likely statistically speaking we live in a far future simulation of history than the original timeline, presuming humanity doesn't die out and makes more than one simulation of Earth's past.

Maybe it's just not a catch-all solution, but only for specific purposes, and the human body is already quite optimized for what it's doing, and tinkering with it when you don't have to do it (e.g. in case of diseases or injuries) just fucks up too many other parts in this delicate balance so that you have to cascade your tinkering to address unforeseen consequences, again and again. until it all becomes a mess?

I guess. But we're already tinkering around the edges. I know for a fact that China is putting research into how to use human genome editing to make future generations smarter and healthier, for example. Maybe it will all blow up, but provided we're just trying to make more people at the 99.9th percentile of aptitude, and not breaking new ground, I don't expect it to be that difficult.

It's true that Trek never had a true singularity. But that is an "endpoint" in most sci-fi stories as well (OR it's just a "computer overlord to be defeated"). Right now there is just not a lot of interesting stories about this - even outside Trek - because it's just hard to imagine or predict.

I dunno. I feel like Iain Banks' Culture series is in some ways what Star Trek could've been with a few more decades under its belt. There's a giant, multispecies federation, but it's really run by the super-intelligent AI's, who are benevolent, with most "humans" just spending their time high, having sex, or on hobbies. The analogue of Starfleet (Special Circumstances) involves agents outside The Culture, because there's not fun stories within post-scarcity utopia.
 
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Where are the super-advanced aliens? The galaxy is over 13 billion years old, and in the Trekverse, is full of life. Surely there should be races which have been spacefaring for tens of thousands, even millions of years. Yet every race is at roughly the same tech level as the Federation - whatever the Federation's tech level is. Or else long-since dead or ascended into energy beings.
The Federation runs into those all the time, The First Federation, The Voth, the various races who hide themselves away and don't want to be bothered so erase peoples memories if found.

Kardashev Type II races seem quite rare. All this time, and only one Dyson sphere we never saw again. Why aren't there planetary-scale (or larger) megastructures everywhere?
One of the Federation's Member Races literally lives on a Ringworld.

And they have cruise ships with moons inside.

While true AI exists, it's treated again as a one-off curiosity. Humans still do not only most of the intellectual, but most of the physical labor. True super-intelligent AI seems to be rare, if not entirely absent.
True AI's are stupidly common.

But super-intelligent AI isn't possible under the rules of the Star Trek universe because reaching that point means ascending into a godlike energy being.

You could build a computer with the mass of Jupiter, and use the raw computing power to generate a near infinite number of AI clones of people who may have existed, effectively resurrecting the dead, for one. Indeed, a lot of people now argue that it's more likely statistically speaking we live in a far future simulation of history than the original timeline, presuming humanity doesn't die out and makes more than one simulation of Earth's past.
Souls exists in Star Trek, so it would be different from resurrecting the dead.
 
Where are the super-advanced aliens? The galaxy is over 13 billion years old, and in the Trekverse, is full of life. Surely there should be races which have been spacefaring for tens of thousands, even millions of years. Yet every race is at roughly the same tech level as the Federation - whatever the Federation's tech level is. Or else long-since dead or ascended into energy beings.
Cheron, Q, Sargon and his people, plus various ancient powers. They exist but the Galaxy had seen powers rise and fall
 
Liked this one a bit more than the first episode. Less chaotic and more character stuff. I did feel like I was watching Starfleet Academy:Hogwarts a few times. 😂

I'm giving the show a fair chance. As last episode the production values were well done. I would be interested in seeing how much of the sets are practical. They cover a lot of ground. I personally would not mind if they keep the bulk of the 20 episode run on campus. With short excursions outside of campus for lessons.
 
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