This is probably a bad time to mention that the TOS Movies were my first exposure to Star Trek. Where swearing was a thing, including outside of TVH.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x04 - "No Win Scenario"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Oh no! Not the "B" word!
I mean, that's a good example of the fact that the only "standard" that Star Trek has ever held itself to are ratings and broadcast standards. Any previous lack of swearing does not point to the Federation evolving beyond "base" language or any such ridiculous nonsense, it was entirely due to the fact that at the time, they simply couldn't get away with it without losing sponsors.
"You really piss me off, Jim. Human life is far too precious to risk on crazy stunts."
"Forgive you? I ought to knock you on your goddamn ass!"
"I bet that Klingon bitch killed her father!"
... and, of course, my personal favorite...
"Klingon bastards, you killed my son. KLINGON BASTARDS YOU KILLED MY SON!!! You Klingon bastards!"
"Forgive you? I ought to knock you on your goddamn ass!"
"I bet that Klingon bitch killed her father!"
... and, of course, my personal favorite...
"Klingon bastards, you killed my son. KLINGON BASTARDS YOU KILLED MY SON!!! You Klingon bastards!"
Controversial Opinion: The way Picard acts in PIC is how he really is. In TNG, in the very first episode, Picard acted like an asshole towards Riker, then told him that a Captain had to have an image of geniality and Riker had to make sure that was the image he projected.
In PIC, he's trying to bond with Jack. He's not trying to project an image. He's wants to be himself. Jack's grown up and Picard knows he's lived a hard life. Picard is also an old man and doesn't give a shit anymore. So if an F-bomb drops while he's telling Jack a story about the Old Days, so what? "Old" doesn't mean "clean-mouthed". Just the opposite a lot of times. There's a difference between Picard the Captain and Picard the Person. People want Picard the Captain, but that's not what he is anymore.
In PIC, he's trying to bond with Jack. He's not trying to project an image. He's wants to be himself. Jack's grown up and Picard knows he's lived a hard life. Picard is also an old man and doesn't give a shit anymore. So if an F-bomb drops while he's telling Jack a story about the Old Days, so what? "Old" doesn't mean "clean-mouthed". Just the opposite a lot of times. There's a difference between Picard the Captain and Picard the Person. People want Picard the Captain, but that's not what he is anymore.
Did transformers do ten minutes in an episode where the script explicitly explains how the Autobots don’t use “colourful metaphors” and some of them find the concept a bit weird?
Because Trek did that in one of its most successful mainstream entries, and until DSC any break from that was unusual, and if I remember correctly, usually explainable in context (Data is an Android having a nervous breakdown, Kirk collapsing on the bridge was practically Shakespearean in its tragedy and performance — and carried weight as a result etc etc) without it just slipping ever so slightly into Kevin Smith territory for a few minutes.
Like it or not, that’s the most logical explanation, and not impossible to see.
I still await ‘Ever see a Bajoran Vedek call a kid a f***ing c***rag?’ cos that really will cause the spitting of jumja sticks.
Actually… I don’t want that. Because part of Trek’s milieu is how people speak, which is ever so slightly different to how we speak now, as it should be.
In the UK, the TV version chopped that scene a bit, and it strongly sounded like ‘Klingon Bailiffs’. Only version I owned for a while.
Space is a pretty good insulator. It conducts almost no heat. Objects can lose heat via emitting infrared light, but that's a slower process. So, no, heat loss wouldn't be a problem in the timeframe needed.
I take the "colorful metaphor" stuff in Star Trek 4 as seriously as I take the "we don't use money in the future" stuff in Star Trek 4. Both are demonstrably incorrect, and were so even before Star Trek IV.
Here's the thing. So, holodecks use a combination of holograms, force fields, and probably replicators. We've seen all of those subcomponents run on the normal power source that is compatible with everything else. So, why would the holodeck need some bizarre power source that is incompatible with everything else when it uses the same technology as everything else?!
You don't need to be an expert on 25th century technology, just use logic!
Kirk wouldn't know how to swear back, even if a little off sometimes, if there was no swearing at all. All the examples I chose in my earlier post were from outside of TVH.
In TVH, Kirk said that "no one pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word" in 1986. He never said there was no swearing at all in the 23rd Century. Spock in TVH is also socially inept and had his mind re-trained and everything was still coming back to him. He wasn't quite himself yet.
There's also the fact that Star Trek has been produced over several decades. What else has changed over the last several decades is the loosening of standards. TOS was made during a time when the Hays Code had only just lost its grip. The TOS Movies were Rated PG. Dropping F-bombs would've pushed it up to R when they were made. It wasn't like today where almost everything is PG-13 and they'll allow the word "fuck" if it's used in a non-sexual context. The movies from FC onwards (except for Insurrection) are all PG-13. Though none of the movies say "fuck". DSC did it once awkwardly. They don't use that word in SNW. But PIC is intended to be more "adult" than DSC or SNW and definitely the movies, and it's within the range of what's now considered "acceptable" for PG-13 (or TV-14), so they're using it here.
Before PIC, DS9 was the most adult Star Trek. If it were allowable back then, DS9 would've used the word "fuck". Ron Moore's BSG used "frak" in lieu of "fuck", so I strongly suspect that if he could've gotten away with it, he would've used "fuck" on BSG and would've used it on DS9.
EDITED TO ADD: Then there's Leah Brahams in TNG itself. The first thing she says to Geordi when she gets off the transporter pad at the beginning of "Galaxy's Child" is, "So you're the one who fouled up my engines!" The way she said it, you know what she really would've said if the censors would've allowed it. Let's not fool ourselves. You know, I know, everyone knows. Don't pretend otherwise.
"So you're the one who fouled up my engines!" is the Honorary First F-Bomb in Star Trek.
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"In a pig's eye."
The Changlings found ways around blood screenings before on DS9. I am also thinking a Changling might be inside Jack Crusher and the voice the Female Changling who was arrested after the Dominion War. We don't know if she is still locked up or anything.
so, you agree then? XD
They got away with ‘mewling q***’ in Avengers precisely *because* language, particularly vulgarities, change over time. (‘Naughty’ no longer carries the weight it once have had either for example) Kirk basically says swearing as we know it today no-longer exists in common parlance (McCoys whole shtick is being anachronistic so any of his dialogue gets a pass anyway — he’s basically the equivalent of a Steampunk, right down to his naval nickname. Though I did like the JJ Trek explanation for that better.) in his century. To the the point that he *literally doesn’t know how to speak that way at all really* hence the famous ‘a double dumb-ass on you’ despite having read ‘the greats’.
Censors are an out of universe reason for what was then codified in universe, and forms part of the world building — whether some people like it or not.
The same is absolutely true of all made up language, like that which you mention. It’s one of FarScapes great strengths, and that has plenty of actual adult content, and what amounts to a Muppet saying ‘The Blue Bitch said it would be easy’ in its first season.
Use of present-day (or really boomer, Californian) slang is lazy, and doesn’t really work in Treks milieu. Klingons being called bastards after a tragic dramatic moment *works* because that word is so old, and works in that scene. ‘Dipshit’ and ‘fucking cool’ does not, really, because they aren’t (and dipshit is *so* 80s and rarely used anymore, certainly not worldwide) and because they stick out like sore thumbs. As does Picards F-Bomb (and Jack using the word laid… there was something else he said that didn’t fit his accent/colloquial speech either, it stuck out at the time but I have forgotten it) all things considered.
It’s not a puritan problem (although arguably a trek puritan one) it’s a consistency one. We can hand wave Data using contractions, cos that’s bastard hard to keep perfect, just about, but slang dates hard daddy-oh hepcat.
It's not a morality thing but I think the "respectability" of the characters that people complaining about the profanity are upset about.
For example, no one's going to claim that Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader over at that other star franchise are paragons of morality, quite the opposite actually, but I'm pretty sure we'd have lots of complaints if we see the Emperor's royal guard start saying 4 letter words when the Rebels attack, or have the Emperor say, "Get these f---ing ewoks f---ing up my Death Star off this m----f---- planet."
I guarantee there would have been complaints if Mace Windu started talking like that despite Mace's actor supposedly having a reputation for using that kind of language.
Rogue One would've been criticized repeatedly if Vader, watching the Death Star plans get away on the Tantive IV, said, "Aw, f---". There's a reason why them using that language is relegated to Robot Chicken.
For example, no one's going to claim that Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader over at that other star franchise are paragons of morality, quite the opposite actually, but I'm pretty sure we'd have lots of complaints if we see the Emperor's royal guard start saying 4 letter words when the Rebels attack, or have the Emperor say, "Get these f---ing ewoks f---ing up my Death Star off this m----f---- planet."
I guarantee there would have been complaints if Mace Windu started talking like that despite Mace's actor supposedly having a reputation for using that kind of language.
Rogue One would've been criticized repeatedly if Vader, watching the Death Star plans get away on the Tantive IV, said, "Aw, f---". There's a reason why them using that language is relegated to Robot Chicken.
The only reason it stands out is because 80s is now vintage.
Star Trek can only be so consistent because it's been made over too large of a span of time. And I'm not talking about continuity here, I'm talking about content. Like I said, standards have changed from the '60s to the '80s to the '90s to Today. That's the reality of it being a filmed production. Filmed productions change with the times. The storytelling method changes, the writing style changes.
If you watch something made in 1965, something made in 1990, and something made in 2015, all 25 years apart, you're going to get three different things. That's the way it is with everything.
We all know the f-bombs and such are there because the show isn't on network TV. I swear too much myself to be bothered about it in TV shows but there's a line. If the f-bombs etc are forced or the use is just stupid and juvenile ("Oooh, we can say fuck now! Let's fucking do it!"), that's dumb and pointless. If it's natural and unforced, fine.
Having said that there are people who say "fuck" every third word in every sentence. (I find that rather stupid, but each to their own.) There are others who don't find it necessary (for lack of a better word) to swear at all. Describing people who aren't comfortable with it as "pearl clutchers" and the like is unnecessary. It's not a matter of being prudish or outdated or anything; it's just a personal preference. And after 50-plus years of nothing "worse" (again for lack of a better word) than "bastard", it takes some getting used to.
Having said that there are people who say "fuck" every third word in every sentence. (I find that rather stupid, but each to their own.) There are others who don't find it necessary (for lack of a better word) to swear at all. Describing people who aren't comfortable with it as "pearl clutchers" and the like is unnecessary. It's not a matter of being prudish or outdated or anything; it's just a personal preference. And after 50-plus years of nothing "worse" (again for lack of a better word) than "bastard", it takes some getting used to.
