Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

[fireproof78]

I don’t question that there’s sexism behind some people’s criticism of Discovery, but Tilly is a young ensign abruptly promoted to first officer. She’s more Wesley than Riker, and Wesley has taken no shortage of criticism and outright hate.

Again, not saying that there isn't legitimate criticism-most of the most vocal Discovery defenders were not about to defend Tilly's promotion to XO, and I question it as well. But, it is what it is and working within that story is part of my engagement with the material.

What I am referring to is the idea every single past mistake Tilly or Burnham is used as ammo against them. That doesn't strike me as criticism but just beating them up for the sake of it.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I don’t question that there’s sexism behind some people’s criticism of Discovery, but Tilly is a young ensign abruptly promoted to a position far beyond her years. She’s more Wesley than Riker, and Wesley has taken no shortage of criticism and outright hate.

100%. And Neelix! Have you seen the amount of grief Neelix gets!

 

[Discofan]

I don’t question that there’s sexism behind some people’s criticism of Discovery, but Tilly is a young ensign abruptly promoted to a position far beyond her years. In that’s sense, she’s more Wesley than Riker, and Wesley has taken no shortage of criticism and outright hate.

I think there's a major difference between these two characters... Tilly is likable.

 

[Discofan]

100%. And Neelix! Have you seen the amount of grief Neelix gets!

Well, maybe it's because... he's annoying.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, maybe it's because... he's annoying.

And also a liar. That really gets on my nerves.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Well, maybe it's because... he's annoying.

Exactly! People get criticised for numerous reasons don't they? Wesley, Neelix, Tilly, Burnham. Can't trace it all back to someone's gender.

 

[Discofan]

And also a liar. That really gets on my nerves.

Yeah, in the very first mission he was in, he betrayed the crew and could have got them all killed.

 

[cooleddie74]

Neelix is better than Kes. But that's about it.

 

[fireproof78]

No one said there isn't legitimate forms of criticism of Tilly or Burnham. Only that some criticism is gender based.

 

[Discofan]

Exactly! People get criticised for numerous reasons don't they? Wesley, Neelix, Tilly, Burnham. Can't trace it all back to someone's gender.

Yes, but Tilly is really likable, I'd find it impossible to hate even if she screwed up royally.

 

[cooleddie74]

I did like Burnham in this episode. Desperate, wounded by a dagger or knife and pulling a John McClane aboard Discovery. Frankly this one worked on most levels.

 

[Discofan]

Neelix is better than Kes. But that's about it.

Yeah, I can't help thinking of her as someone who eats dirt and bugs by the handful.

 

[Discofan]

I did like Burnham in this episode. Desperate, wounded by a dagger or knife and pulling a John McClane aboard Discovery. Frankly this one worked on most levels.

Well, we didn't see her walk barefoot on broken glass though...


Plus she didn't say yippee ki yay mother fucker when the other was ejected into space...

 

[cooleddie74]

That's being saved for PIC Season 2.

 

[SG-17]

Nice to see someone we met as an admiral not be a badmiral for once. Vance wanted to raise the Emerald Chain up and Oryssa wanted to bring the Federation dow to their level.

Also I really like that the Sphere Data is loyal to the crew.

 

[Quinton]

I always knew the DOTs would matter eventually. You don't keep getting offhanded mentions in DISCO for no reason. Neat that they're going to be useful in the finale.

 

[ITDUDE]

Also I really like that the Sphere Data is loyal to the crew.

It's loyal to itself. The crew are... a means to an end.

 

[Discofan]

It's loyal to itself. The crew are... a means to an end.

Yeah, let's not forget that in another timeline the sphere data helps Control wipe out all intelligent life in the galaxy.

 

[Discofan]

I always knew the DOTs would matter eventually. You don't keep getting offhanded mentions in DISCO for no reason. Neat that they're going to be useful in the finale.

But these are not just DOTs, they are sphere data enhanced DOTs.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Basics or Shockwave? Basics or Shockwave? Which by the numbers story wrap up does this better resemble?

It's not bad. It's probably good for what it is. I'm just not that excited.

Thoughts:

• Like I wrote above, I loved the Biblical symbolism in the middle of the negotiations
• I also rather like the direction that the negotiation took. I'm not impressed with Osyra as villain/antagonist. Nonetheless, the hangup on whether she would go to trial in order to make reconciliation move forward was fascinating. It feels like there is a commentary being made about "redemption" in fiction, but I'm not sure how deep it will be in the end.
• I also loved the conversation between the scientist and Stamets. Kenneth Marshall had too big of an assignment to make us care about an unknown character, and he definitely acquited himself even if it was too much.
• I have felt that Stamets was not the type who entered service via traditional chanels. I would normally think his rank was more like that of a physician or and advocate. I don't think that I would find his behavior satisfying if he had gone the "academy" route.
• No one did a bad job, and indeed, many of the characters performed well. It just seems all perfunctory.
• It seems strange that this is only the second scene with the Discovery AI given how much emphasis being placed on it.