Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 30, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    19.1%
  2. 9

    21.4%
  3. 8

    30.1%
  4. 7

    16.8%
  5. 6

    2.3%
  6. 5

    4.0%
  7. 4

    1.7%
  8. 3

    0.6%
  9. 2

    0.6%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    3.5%
  1. Iconian

    Iconian Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    [​IMG]

    What's with the holo? :D
     
  2. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would argue that in these times, the writers of DSC, PIC, LDS, S31, SNW, et al. are writing for a global audience. The audience that we represent several factions of here in this forum has never been larger.
     
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  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Looks like I just missed the gatekeeper portion of the thread. Thank God.
     
  4. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The women were affected - they got headaches. So, despite orientations which were left unaddressed, the Orion female pheromones worked simply:
    - Human Male- overwhelming sexual attraction (unless psychically bonded to a Vulcan)
    - Human Female - migraine-like symptoms
    - Denobulan Male- increased fatigue
    - Vulcan Female - no apparent effects (could be a side effect of their emotional control)

    Based on the episode Bound alone, I assume gay men would find an odd attraction to the Orion women, and lesbian women would get headaches.
     
  5. Kzinti

    Kzinti Commander Red Shirt

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    i hope they never reference ''orion pheromones'' that shit can stay in the early 2000 along the ''decon gel'' stuff
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    100% agree!
     
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  7. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Well, at least they don't actually uncork the pheromones like Janeway with Chaotica...

    :D
     
  8. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    I’m just going to stop you there. And say yes.
     
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  9. Fateor

    Fateor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Purely statistic wise, with the 54 men on board Enterprise, it's actually unlikely that any men on board were purely gay.

    Bisexual is more likely, but given the numbers you would at most probably be looking at 1 or 2, not counting Phlox.
     
  10. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    Fine for me.

    I try not to judge, but with the same standards applied to everyone else if I had to, including Osyraa.

    I wouldn’t have given her a job in Starfleet if it was my call, but that’s another story.

    Good to know.

    I really think you’ll get your wish: I can’t imagine modern trek touching the topic. MAYBE only Lower Decks will do it and even so only in passing.
     
  11. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    With as little as we know about him, it’s probably Mayweather.
    Did he ever have an onscreen romance?
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, ENT showed something quite different:

    - Human Male - incapable of critical thought or initiative, susceptible to every type of suggestion

    ...That is, drunk as a skunk. A few of the Orions then told the men to be attracted to them, while others merely told them to divulge state secrets. And if nothing was told, the men got bored and picked up fights.

    There was no particular sexual attraction going on, except when one of the three Orions very explicitly told that this should be going on, and even pointed to a target for the clueless guy. But since inhibitions were down, we could assume sexuality to surface in all its forms. Which in practice would mean absolutely nothing: if a gay man started chasing Archer's ass, we never saw it happen, but we never saw a straight woman start doing that, either, because there simply weren't too many opportunities. And we can quite safely assume that any two men, ostensibly fighting for a woman, were gay as folks and simply fighting for fighting's sake, because that's how fights happen.

    Migraine-like headaches would of course go with being drunk on select people. Or with insufficient doses of the intoxicating agent...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  13. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Fortunately, we have math, so we can actually figure out what the likelihoods are.
    Assuming there are 54 men on board and each has a 1.7% chance to be gay (from the first google result I found), there is a 60.38% chance that at least one of them is gay.

    Really, this number mainly depends on what your statistic for what percentage of people is gay is. Assuming only 0.1% of people are gay the chance that one or more Enterprise crewmember is gay is only 5%, if we assume that 10% of people are gay, there's a 99.66% chance. Math is fun.

    That depends greatly on how many bi people there are. According to the first google result I got, that quotes a study from 2011, bi people only made up 1.8% of the pupulation, so there's a 62,5% chance a male Enterprise crewmember is gay.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  14. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hard to believe.
    I don’t have a specific study at hand, but I’ve seen estimations higher than that.
    Also, if study participants are not sure or self aware enough about their own orientation, they might misreport.
     
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  15. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    You can take my word for it that the proportion of people that are gay or bi is closer to 5-10% than 0.1. Those studies rely on people self-identifying as LGB. I’m gay myself and you would not believe the number of self-identifying ‘straight’ and married guys that are on gay dating apps. There’s still huge stigma and prejudice attached to identifying as gay, which is why so many don’t and won’t. I believe in Star Trek’s future those stigmas would be long gone, and people would feel far freer to 1. Either identify as gay/bi/whatever or 2. Not feel the need to label themselves themselves in any way.
     
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  16. O'Dib

    O'Dib Commodore Commodore

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    Looks like post TOS era they know enough to inoculate against it.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But, how is Vance to apply a standard if Georgiou didn't know that stuff was wrong when it was done?
     
  18. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Talk to the hand.:lol:
     
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  19. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    …just like Osyraa didn't, having grown up in a society where murder and slavery are perfectly normal.
     
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  20. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In retrospect, Orion pheromones probably make a good excuse for why Aurellio was seemingly clueless for years about the scope of the Emerald Chain's atrocities.

    Aurellio: Stop beating up that kid! Don't beam that tribble into space! At least have the decency to mercy kill that Kelpien before you eat him!

    Aurellio's wife, I mean handler: No need to pay attention to any of that, come join me over here, I'm lonely.

    Osyraa: :guffaw: