So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet personnel?

[plynch]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

The guys are all decent, for the most part, though not "ripped" to the extent the women are hot.

De Kelley was 48 during TOS -- guy looks great for that age. I'm 48 and he's handsomer and better fit than I. Ditto Doohan. Fine male specimens. Kirk was handsome. Chekov cute.

Janeway, for a middle-aged woman was "fine," imho: healthy and proportional, true not what most would call sexy, but some do in another thread here.

But yeah, survival of the fittest (watched) shows has led to Hollywood showing us what we like to see. Biologically, women's looks that imply youth or health are better-looking to us (even to us who are female). Guys can be older or even bald (my wife was hot for Picard) and get sexier due to the implied power and resource-acquisition abilities.

"You can throw nature out with a pitchfork, but she always comes back with a vengeance." - CG Jung

"To women, the world says 'seem'; to men, 'do.' " - unknown! but if anybody knows who said, I'd LOVE to have it sourced -- one of my favorite quotes, though I wish it weren't so.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Janeway, for a middle-aged woman was "fine," imho: healthy and proportional, true not what most would call sexy, but some do in another thread here.

Honestly, it depends on who you ask. It was only about a decade ago, after Voyager ended, did I find out that Janeway had a rather strong following in the LGBTQ community. Not just her command style and character, but also the way she carried herself physically, and her strong delivery. In all those cases, she was considered to be an ideal in combining sexy and command.

I'm not saying it's universal, just that I was surprised at her reception.

 

[f14peter]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

But ST is so damn overt about it and the discrepancy between the men and women is ridiculously obvious. I mean practically every main female is a knockout. The men have some but I think Chris Pine is the only one you could call a legit equal to the women in overall attractiveness. .

I'd have to disagree, not so much with your point about attractive female characters but in that it's exclusive to or epitomized by Star Trek.

Take the vast majority of primetime drama or action/adventure shows and tell me what you see. According to that, every urban fire or police department, every government agency (political or legal), every law firm and district attorney's office, every private investigation business, etc is swimming with "beautiful people" and yes in particular, women.

names some primetime network shows and you'd be hard pressed to find one without most of the female characters in the "attractive" category.

It's usually only when you get into the realm of family sit-coms, where the "everyoneness" of the characters is usually elemental to the backstory, where this is less prevelant. And usually the "unattractiveness" is utilized often as a comedic arc in the script. But even they are not immune ... I read an article some years ago about the "sexification" of the sit-com mom, in that they were trending toward more attractive actresses, less the stereotypical "mom" image. It cited such examples as THE COSBY SHOW, HOME IMPROVEMENT, EVERYONE LOVES RAYMOND and ACCORDING TO JIM, among others, where the female lead ("Mom") was less and less the dowdy character and more the attractive (almost)-middle-aged woman.

 

[wildsulu]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

apart from the casting of actresses, it should be mentioned that Robert Beltran/Chakotay had many admirers

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

I think it's fair to say that the general attractiveness of female characters in Starfleet has more to do with the producers wanting to serve the audience than it does in-universe bias.

To be in Starfleet you'd probably need to have a certain level of physical fitness to be accepted. So you wouldn't expect men or women to be overweight. But there's probably a lot of less than attractive female faces behind the scenes that just don't appear on camera.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

apart from the casting of actresses, it should be mentioned that Robert Beltran/Chakotay had many admirers

Himself included.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

apart from the casting of actresses, it should be mentioned that Robert Beltran/Chakotay had many admirers

Myself among them. I found his soft spoken and strong demeanor very attractive.

In universe, and despite Picard remaining bald, cosmetic procedures might be common and socially acceptable. In Homeward, Worf had his appearance altered to pass as a native, when he needed to report in he had his appearance change back to Klingon, even though he would be returning to the natives soon and with a native appearance once again. Fast and easy?

Cosmetic "nip and tucks" are just everyday things.

(this doesn't explain Riker in later seasons)

 

[Makarov]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Fatness and baldness are actually hot in the future due to the rest of their society being so perfect. They are the new leather biker jacket, rebel fashion

 

[Enterprise1701]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Well in their admissions process, Starfleet could utilize non-humanoid Federation citizens who probably lack humanoid beauty standards. For example (in non-canon media), the Horta.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Last week in Star Trek Visions #5, John Byrne delivered an older (There was almost 15 years between the pilots.) (Pike's) #1 who was now a Commodore (with her own Star Ship) suited up in lime green, and trousers.

In one light you can say equality at last, equality at last, but on the other hand maybe they forced her to wear trousers because she is over 40 which is ageist on top of sexist.



But really, her ship, her rules.

 

[Melakon]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

I'd like to see the women's version of the officer's wrap-around tunic

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

ORIGINAL POST

 

[BigJake]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Fine. You're right. I'm wrong and I suck. I made all the casting choices personally and made the most of the women with great bodies, big breasts and tight asses.

You know, just a word of advice here: you can be Guy Who's All About Facing the Tough Realities, or you can be Ridiculously Thin-Skinned Guy Who Freaks Out and Yells "Mods Lock the Thread" When Facing the Least Criticism... but you really can't be both. It's an unworkable combination.

It is, by the way, not exactly news that female actors from the Sixties through to now face more pressure to conform to certain body types and standards of beauty, broadly speaking, than male actors do. This is part of a baseline sexism in Hollywood and it is problematic, and it is indeed reflected in the casting of Trek shows among many others.

There is an interesting thread to be had about that, but it probably can't start with putting the terms of the debate as crudely, clumsily and offensively as possible and starting out with the assumption that most of the audience is heterosexual males. Among other silliness.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

Was no one offended by the naked woman on Janus VI? Bad enough parading her around, but Spock feeling her up to boot. And she liked him for it, that's blatant sexism.

 

[BigJake]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

TOS was chock full of blatant sexism.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

TOS was chock full of blatant sexism.

What? Holy Miniskirts, Batman!

 

[BigJake]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

One of my favourite examples is "Metamorphosis." Really everything about it, but the last line from Kirk takes the cake: "Well, I'm sure the Federation can find another woman somewhere who'll stop that war." Yep, diplomacy is wimminz work, you see.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

And really, who's to say that the men are not by-and-large attractive? A straight male?

It may be "easy" to find an attractive woman that's going to appeal to most members of your audience who prefer the female body. It's hard to screw up "thin/toned, curvy." But women tend to be a bit more complex when it comes to physical attraction it's not as simple as "broad, muscular." There's plenty of men who wouldn't be seen as conventionally attractive whom women lust after. Women tend to be a touch more "complex" when it comes to that. As noted, Stewart was often seen as the heart-throb for females during TNG's run. And there we're talking about a thinish, bald, man in his 50s. Even today in his 70s he's seen as quite attractive.

Riker was supposed to be the "heart-throb" of the show had the looks one would find conventionally attractive. He's tall, muscular/cut, strong jaw-line, full-head of hair and eventually a beard. But he was second-fiddle to the sexiness of Patrick Stewart.

So as much as there's a huge problem in the way Hollywood treats women and uses their bodies for sex appeal it could simply be chalked up to men just being simple. We like pretty things. That's easy to do!

For women it's far, far more complex. Sure, they enjoy the handsome, cut, Ryan Gosssling or Bradly Cooper type but then they also like the bald English men types. The somewhat scrawny nerd types.

That's all speaking from a production standpoint.

In-universe? There may be no real answer that makes sense when we accept that we're dealing with a society that no longer has sexism. Beautiful women aren't more likely to have an impact on their careers than unattractive women. Being an "unattractive" male isn't more likely to help you than being an "attractive" one. It's just that due to the realities, sad as they can be, of making a TV show in the 20th/21st century we just haven't seen them.

There's billions upon billions of humans living in the Trek universe and an uncountable number of living humanoid beings in the Trek universe. Limiting that to just those in Starfleet/the Federation, we're still talking about a really damn big number.

So out of those billions of people in this future society, we've seen a few hundred of them. It just so happened that by and large they were largely attractive women and "unattractive" men. Hey, I can walk around Beverly Hills and see all kinds of attractive, rich, people. But I'm not going to draw conclusions on what all of humanity looks like based on that.

Sometimes the reality we live in, one where attractive women "gets butts in the seat" so to speak is going to contrast with actual reality when it comes to rest of the world on TV.

I doubt all female lawyers, crime-investigators and hospital employees all look like they just stepped off the cover of a fashion magazine. But if I watch TV, well it seems like it.

 

[BigJake]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

And really, who's to say that the men are not by-and-large attractive? A straight male?

Yes, generally speaking most actors of both sexes are more attractive on average -- for media-defined standards thereof -- than the populace at large. It's all relative. It's just that female actors will tend to be held to a higher and more restricted standard yet (and will find their available roles narrowing more precipitously as they age).

 

[Vandervecken]

Re: So how much does having a nice body impact female starfleet person

If they're males, it's much easier. And since the majority of film producers remain male, several have privately casted actresses they want or consider to be ''rhymes-with-cluckable.''

Look at Star Wars. Sure Carrie Fisher is hot and despite her character being a no nonsense ass kicker they managed to get her body into a metal bikini. But I think most people would agree that Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, Billy Dee Williams and Admiral Ackbar are all extremely attractive men. So there's at least parity.

So you're a trout.