Quark's root beer analogy of the Federation

[JediKnightButler]

I know the feeling, I am such an awesome person that it is tough for some (most) people who knows me. But I feel pitty for everyone who doesn't know me

To know you is to love you……

 

[USS Firefly]

To know you is to love you……

Exactly!

 

[Weyoun 251]

I'm not entirely sold on this whole "loss of culture" thing in terms of its (purported) severity. My experience with real life has taught me that isolation and, by extension, stagnation, isn't desirable in the long run. Now, does this mean that a nation should necessarily jump into bed with the first stranger that bats their eyes? Of course not. My ultimate point is that there ways in which one - an individual or civilization - grows that cannot be substituted; mixing with other cultures is a pertinent example.



Picture that scene where Dukat is in Sisko's office; would it have had the same impact if the cocksure Cardassian had played with a golf ball? How about a birdie? Hm...a cricket ball sounds like it would've worked.

I want Dukat doing keepy ups with an old Mitre size 5! Would have no toe nails left after a couple of takes

 

[Ragitsu]

I want Dukat doing keepy ups with an old Mitre size 5! Would have no toe nails left after a couple of takes

As if he requires further exertion; his mouth gives him all the exercise he needs.

 

[Greatn]

Qwark was almost always right in the things he said

 

[Ragitsu]

Qwark was almost always right in the things he said

Notice that even he refrained from insulting ginger ale.

 

[Greatn]

He knew where ginger ale stood and respected it

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He knew where ginger ale stood and respected it

Lest it snap.

 

[kkt]

Lest it snap.

Oh, well done

 

[Ragitsu]

Did you hear that? That was the reference going over my head at supersonic speed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is actually a horror movie called Ginger Snaps.

 

[Ragitsu]

*sigh*

I thought "ginger...snap?", but I didn't make the connection between that and Ginger Snaps. The only reason that film's title is in my consciousness is because I remember reading recommendations for it around the time I watched Dog Soldiers.

 

[Silvercrest]

the Federation seeks to export its values to other cultures.

Who doesn't?

Right now I'm having trouble picturing any other culture in Trek that actively seeks to export its values to others. Do the Vulcans go around converting people to the ways of logic? How about the Klingons and honor? Or the Cardassians and their family values? (Simply referring to those things all the time doesn't count; I mean actively preaching as in "You should do THIS!")

Wait, there's one exception.

I'd say people might be wary of the Federation.

Planets that join the Federation are welcomed as equals and partners, they gain safety and strength, but they are giving up part of their cultural uniqueness in the bargain. Quark and Garak are keenly aware of both ends of that bargain.

A society based entirely around money and greed would be justifiably wary about allying themselves with one that decries both.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Do the Vulcans go around converting people to the ways of logic?

Well, they are already members of the Federation. Although, if Vulcans like Captain Solok are any indication, they DO attempt to push their logic on others - and, in the process, decry emotionalism...

How about the Klingons and honor?

The Klingons don't invite other worlds to join (like the Federation does), they conquer.

 

[Silvercrest]

Well, they are already members of the Federation. Although, if Vulcans like Captain Solok are any indication, they DO attempt to push their logic on others (and, in the process, decry emotionalism...

Amazing! I used a flawed example and managed to make the correct point anyway. How often does THAT happen?
(My error, of course, was to equate the Federation with Earth ... something that annoys me whenever the franchise does it. )

The Klingons don't invite other worlds to join (like the Federation does), they conquer.

Another great Martok quote! Which actually counts as pushing their values on other people ... but is also a good reason for Quark and Garak to be wary.

I think I'll withdraw the point that the Federation is particularly unique in that respect. They're just uniquely insidious about it.

 

[Ragitsu]

Nah...those were just (edgy) 90s "Fiendish Federation" sentiments.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think I'll withdraw the point that the Federation is particularly unique in that respect. They're just uniquely insidious about it.

Insidious? In what way?

That term implies sneaky, underhanded or even evil motives on the Federation's part. And I think we all know they don't have such motives.

The Federation inviting other worlds to join (which is entirely within its rights to do so) is not pushing their values on those worlds. Pushing implies force or coercion. The Federation does not employ force. They are entitled to make their case, as it were, but the ultimate choice is up to the prospective member. If a world says "Go away", the Federation will comply. So who's pushing?

 

[Silvercrest]

That term implies sneaky, underhanded or even evil motives on the Federation's part. And I think we all know they don't have such motives.

No, but ....

Recognizing that the UFP is a better option than the overtly imperialist powers doesn't make its cultural imperialism, its self-aggrandizement, or its hypocrisies any less objectionable.

Quark and Garak are overwhelmed by the "love bombing" the Federation do and how they constantly are portraying themselves as good guys and wielding what you'd call in politics "soft power." They've offered significant financial and military assistance to Bajor that the planet can't afford to refuse. The Federation will never threaten Bajor into joining but it's very good at making the planet dependent on its help. That in the end, its interests are so tied up in the Federation that it will join and be happy about it.

Quark and Garak's argument is the Federation doesn't even seem to realize it's doing this.

That last point is the zinger. Being so subtle about something that you end up fooling yourself counts as "insidious", even if it isn't "evil".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Federation never MADE Bajor dependent on its help. It just so happened that, after the Cardassian occupation, it WAS. And that's not the Federation's fault.

(And I might remind you that Bajor actively asked for Federation assistance...)

 

[Silvercrest]

The Federation never MADE Bajor dependent on its help. It just so happened that, after the Cardassian occupation, it WAS. And that's not the Federation's fault.

That we know of ....