Quark's root beer analogy of the Federation

[Ragitsu]

At the very least, powers in a position to bargain - powers that aren't completely amoral or immoral, mind you - will insist via political influence that their partners hold themselves to certain moral and/or ethical standards. Remember that there are requirements a civilization must meet before they are granted Federation membership.

 

[kkt]

That is one major reason why people are rekindling their love for the older Trek series: the conversations bereft of spectacle, but chock-full of characterization framing philosophy.

Wait, DS9 is one of the older Trek series now?

Sigh.

 

[Ragitsu]

Wait, DS9 is one of the older Trek series now?

Sigh.

Time: frequently in motion and rarely at rest .

 

[Sci]

Who doesn't?

In real life? Colonized peoples.

Remember that there are requirements a civilization must meet before they are granted Federation membership.

Yup. And the Federation will attempt to get your civilization to start meeting those requirements whether you like it or not.

Just ask the Ferengi -- less than 15 years after regular first contact with the Federation and they started implementing all sorts of Federation-inspired policies! Or the Klingons -- the last two Klingon Chancellors were installed by Federation citizens!

Does that make the Federation bad? I don't think so. But this is very distinctly a choice on the Federation's part and it's a choice that comes with certain costs, and one of those costs is that every culture that acclimates itself to Federation principles loses some of its distinctiveness and becomes at least a little bit homogenized towards UFP values. Worlds do have agency in this, but this is still a choice the UFP is making and it does have costs. This is a form of diet cultural imperialism and it should be acknowledge as such.

Wait, DS9 is one of the older Trek series now?

Sigh.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is older today than Star Trek: The Original Series was when Deep Space Nine premiered.

 

[Ragitsu]

I'm not entirely sold on this whole "loss of culture" thing in terms of its (purported) severity. My experience with real life has taught me that isolation and, by extension, stagnation, isn't desirable in the long run. Now, does this mean that a nation should necessarily jump into bed with the first stranger that bats their eyes? Of course not. My ultimate point is that there ways in which one - an individual or civilization - grows that cannot be substituted; mixing with other cultures is a pertinent example.

Root beer is a very Americanised thing as well, would've loved if they were having the conversation over an Irn Bru!

Picture that scene where Dukat is in Sisko's office; would it have had the same impact if the cocksure Cardassian had played with a golf ball? How about a birdie? Hm...a cricket ball sounds like it would've worked.

 

[dupersuper]

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is older today than Star Trek: The Original Series was when Deep Space Nine premiered.

Why must you say this? This is just mean.

 

[Oddish]

Well, it shows that DS9 has stood up to the test of time. And surprisingly well, too.

 

[Ragitsu]

Well, it shows that DS9 has stood up to the test of time. And surprisingly well, too.

Yeah: Vreenak can hang with the best of our contemporary memes.

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[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm not entirely sold on this whole "loss of culture" thing

There is no loss of culture.

As has been pointed out before, individual Federation member worlds are left to run their own local affairs, and keep their individual cultures and traditions, as they see fit. All they are required to do is keep to Federation law, which is limited to two things:

1) one world government is required
2) caste-based discrimination is banned.

Apart from that? Planets can pretty much do whatever the they want. I'm not seeing any loss of culture here.

 

[Oddish]

) one world government is required
2) caste-based discrimination is banned.

Maybe a few other things. Slavery, for instance. And I doubt gender discrimination like what Vissian cogenitors face would be welcomed.

 

[kkt]

Maybe a few other things. Slavery, for instance. And I doubt gender discrimination like what Vissian cogenitors face would be welcomed.

If your world was hosting the Orion Syndicate, expect the Federation to either deny your entry to the Federation or try vigorously to eradicate it. Even if extortion and murder are just life in the big city in your culture.

 

[Ragitsu]

I had A & W root beer once and it fucking sucks. I thought it was going to taste like Dr. Pepper but it was like some detergent mixed with lighter fluid.

Update ->

I highly recommend "River City" brand root beer; not only does this drink pack an old-timey punch, but - best of all - it doesn't taste artificial!

 

[fireproof78]

Henry Weinhard's for me. Plus a local brewery.

 

[JesterFace]

I'm not sure I agree with Quark but it's a very nice conversation between those two.

 

[Ragitsu]

I'm not sure I agree with Quark but it's a very nice conversation between those two.

Imbibe the Human Drink (Quark's implication and not my own, but he may be onto something...) and you too shall be indoctrinated.

 

[drt]

Henry Weinhard's for me. Plus a local brewery.

My local brewery, Devil's Canyon, makes a great root beer. Weinhard's is also good when I'm too lazy to drive up there.

 

[Nabbers]

Probably just because I grew up on it, but I love the A&W that you get from the restaurants. When I was a kid, they were drive ins, and you got them in a frosty glass mug. Pretty sure they used real sugar at the time. Not sure if they still do, because I don't go to the restaurants much any more now that they're just another typical chain fast food joint. But the bottled stuff was always just an imitation at best. Still something I'll drink on occasion. Strikes me as weird that someone would hope it to taste like Dr Pepper - thats stuff is basically carbonated Robitussin.

 

[Ragitsu]

Weinhard's is also good when I'm too lazy to drive up there.

I vastly prefer it to anything canned, but there seems to be a slightly artificial aftertaste.

Probably just because I grew up on it, but I love the A&W that you get from the restaurants. When I was a kid, they were drive ins, and you got them in a frosty glass mug. Pretty sure they used real sugar at the time. Not sure if they still do, because I don't go to the restaurants much any more now that they're just another typical chain fast food joint. But the bottled stuff was always just an imitation at best. Still something I'll drink on occasion. Strikes me as weird that someone would hope it to taste like Dr Pepper - thats stuff is basically carbonated Robitussin.

The taste depends on three factors.

1. Cane sugar versus high-fructose corn syrup.
2. Natural flavors versus artificial flavors.
3. Glass bottle versus aluminum can.

Interestingly enough, Quark always serves his drinks in glass; I have a feeling Tom Paris would replicate a metal container if he felt its presence would serve "authenticity".

 

[kkt]

Some flavors, both natural and artificial, can be thrown off by being too old. Make sure the root beer stock gets rotated.

 

[fireproof78]

Probably just because I grew up on it, but I love the A&W that you get from the restaurants. When I was a kid, they were drive ins, and you got them in a frosty glass mug. Pretty sure they used real sugar at the time. Not sure if they still do, because I don't go to the restaurants much any more now that they're just another typical chain fast food joint. But the bottled stuff was always just an imitation at best. Still something I'll drink on occasion. Strikes me as weird that someone would hope it to taste like Dr Pepper - thats stuff is basically carbonated Robitussin.

It's funny that you mention this. My dad was just commenting on loving A&W and the root beer floats. I personally enjoy A&W in a pinch but prefer bottled root beer, as well as Dr. Pepper.