Quark's root beer analogy of the Federation
- Thread starter Ragitsu
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Definitely! Its part of the reason I'm keen to watch Prodigy, an all alien crew with no pesky humans getting in the way.
You won't be disappointed.
It's the Lexus and the Olive Tree. You show you have a stable world government than can set up political and legal machinery that fits into the interstellar economic system, you adopt unstated elements of of the Federation economy that rely on automation to eliminate scarcity of most common goods and services, and in return you get unlimited prosperity. You get can replicate the best goods. They're exactly alike, and travelers know what they're getting at the replimat. But the planet gives up some if its distinctiveness. The Federation citizens are like doctor Bashir. They want to go to the hinterlands, which happens to be your home, and help you develop and adopt the new, better, modern ways of living. Those replicated goods really are good. They're addictive, sicky sweet, just like the UFP. Garak and Quark are like Latvian and a Lebonese person speaking to each other in English, their second language, having a wry, Iron Curtain-style, sardonic sense of humor about the idea that they're counting on the absurd-sounding idea that the system that brings them McDonald's and action movies with happy endings also brings peace.
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So I'm not really getting why the Federation is supposed to be the bad guy here.
The point isn't that the Federation is bad. The point is that they resent the way it's so powerful and the way it is able to persuade so many other cultures to join it or adopt its values. They're nationalists -- they want to believe in the glory and power of their homeworlds and in the superiority of their homeworlds' culture and values. But there's the Federation over there, making sense and persuading cultures to join it on the basis of mutual consent, even as by this point both Quark and Garak have started to see that their cultures have major problems and need fundamental reform (even if they won't admit it to themselves yet).
Essentially it's a combination of not wanting the Federation's values to be better even as they're starting to realize that some of its values are better, and of generally wanting their homeworlds to not be drawn into the UFP's orbit even as they're starting to realize that may be necessary to save the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion.
The Federation generally prioritizes diplomacy and engineering over military matters. When they're pushed, however...
Anyhow, I see what this fictional futuristic society has to offer, I've noted the (minor) complaints and I still believe the old saying is applicable here: "That is a good problem to have."
Anyhow, I see what this fictional futuristic society has to offer, I've noted the (minor) complaints and I still believe the old saying is applicable here: "That is a good problem to have."
Seems like the Klingons also had the root beer image for the Federation....in “Sons and Daughters” the Klingon officer Ch’Targh taunts Alexander for preferring earth beverages, suggesting he get a root beer float with ice cream. Alexander should probably have come back with a jest about prune juice.
And this is why DS9 at its best is better than all other series. It's a profound and powerful statement about our world wrapped in a 3-minute joke.
Of course, Shimerman and Robinson sell the hell out of it, giving the scene real sadness and weight. "Do you think they'll be able to save us?" "...I hope so." That counts for a lot.
Quark is a brothel owner and bar tender who is based on the Wild West archetypes established by Al Swearnegan in the RL Deadwood.
Garak is a former member of the Gestapo and secret agent, assassin.
Both of them are incredibly cynical.
The Federation is exhausting for them because it's like Fluttershy the Pony entering their dark and gritty worlds and being constantly proven RIGHT.
Garak is a former member of the Gestapo and secret agent, assassin.
Both of them are incredibly cynical.
The Federation is exhausting for them because it's like Fluttershy the Pony entering their dark and gritty worlds and being constantly proven RIGHT.
Absolutely.
But there's also a measure of hope in that scene, fueled by their desperation and pushing aside their cynicism. That's a really fine line to walk, and they pull it off marvelously.
It's probably been mentioned and I missed it, but just in case...
The root beer scene wasn't even originally planned to exist. The double ep ran a bit short so they came up with a short scene to fill out the run time. And it ends up being better than half the "epic" stuff other shows come up with for their big moves. DS9, I loves ya.
The root beer scene wasn't even originally planned to exist. The double ep ran a bit short so they came up with a short scene to fill out the run time. And it ends up being better than half the "epic" stuff other shows come up with for their big moves. DS9, I loves ya.
A scene like this, that does nothing for the plot or story but adds depth, critique, atmosphere and wit is a prime example of the thoughtfulness and care of everyone involved in that show. If I have any criticism of the Trek of recent times it would be a lack of that thoughtfulness and care in the material and characters that made a show like DS9 so timeless.
My flame has always burned bright.
It wasn't even supposed to be root beer specifically, they just needed a generic soda name that wouldn't run afoul of trademarks or licensing royalties.
Much the same reason that "Happy Birthday" was never sung on star trek, they used "Jolly Good Fellow" since it was public domain
Rekindling? Did it go away?
I just enjoyed seeing an Alien perspective on the Federation and just took it at that. I suppose the Federation was a threat to Quark's way of life so to him the Federation is some type of insidious cultural threat to him. Brought a lot of depth to the Star Trek franchise. The root beer analogy shows Quark is smart.
Much the same reason that "Happy Birthday" was never sung on star trek, they used "Jolly Good Fellow" since it was public domain
And no longer necessary now. The copyright on "Happy Birthday" was ruled invalid, and the song in public domain since 2016.
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