It seems like you're hung up on Paradise's statement, which doesn't seem like a serious statement, and hasn't been demonstrated in anything that's happened on the show. Let Paradise's comment be her cross to carry.
Discovery ending with Season 5
- Thread starter The Habs Fan
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Have they? There's only 3 characters in the main cast that are LGBTQ.
Simply put, it comes down to an imagined Discovery, much like the imgainings that Star Trek was perfect prior to the current generation of show runners who are eveel incarnate and are conspiring to destroy Star Trek as we know it!*
The reality is that Discovery did what Star Trek did in the 60s: treat minorities as part of the crew, with their own challenges and difficulties but still welcome additions. Their struggles could become the focus, especially with Spock, or they could just be a part of the crew. Discovery struck me as pretty inoffensive, and I'm not the most liberal person in the world.
*"As we know it" actually meaning "how I remember it."
The fanbase is always split about something. Kurtzman is just the newest punching bag. Berman, Braga, Freiberger and Bennett have all held that title in the past.
Shows shift all the time. TOS was different show in season one than it was in seasons two and three. TNG changed over the years, same with all the shows.
Irony?
How is it "artistically flaw?" Trek has been doing this since TOS. Was the inclusion of POC characters in 1966 also "artistically flawed? Was addressing then current societal problems (the war, racism, the counter culture etcetera) also flawed?
And this is bad because....?
And this is different than the thought process that gave us black, Asian and disabled characters how?
No. Because there is nothing "artistically" wrong with have those characters. That they might be in badly written episodes is not about the characters.
Main angles of character development? No, LGBTQ+ characters are just characters who are LGBTQ+ in the same way the straight characters are just straight characters. Stamets and Culber interact the same as any other couple on the show. Same for Adira and Gray.
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You mustn’t watch much tv…because that is an absurd statement to make.
Apart, I guess, from the weak and forced Gray story which seemed to be a literal analogy for trans visibility, DSC has not any had stories about LGBT issues at all. They have a gay couple and a non-binary character in the cast. These characters do not exist solely for their sexuality or gender identification, as indeed no human being does. It was completely incidental. I guess there’s no escaping the fact that a lot of people still have very outdated attitudes and do not like to see people different to them on television. What can you do. At least we’re getting to the root of one of the reasons this show elicits so much hatred in a certain part of the fandom.
So, you're saying it's Star Trek,
Well, not exactly the same: At least when Stamets and Culber are in a scene together, they actually DO something, they don't just stand around staring at each other with googly eyes, like Adira and Gray.
At first I also wondered why they haven't dealt with Gray losing his symbiont but then I remembered he's a Guardian now and they are always unjoined. So there's that.
As for Adira, I'm kind of waiting for the explanation - what was Adira doing on that ship with Gray in the first place (when the asteroid hit and killed Gray)? Something happen? What happened to Adira's life on Earth? Some trauma we don't know about?
So, you're saying it's Star Trek,
Pretty much
Although we’re not meant to consider it “real Star Trek” I guess!
Oh, to be young and in love.they don't just stand around staring at each other with googly eyes, like Adira and Gray.
Personally, I suspect the decision to air season 5 in 2024 has more to do with a broadcasting plan, if you will than the necessity to reshoot the ending. IE, maybe for whatever reason they feel having Disco in the early months of 2024 is the perfect lead-in to whatever they have planned to air next. Just speculation on my part, based on nothing substantial.
That's the point where you lose credibility with me. Not that you had very much to begin with.
Adira didn't live on Earth prior to meeting Gray. Since the ship was described as a "generation ship" the impression I was under was Adira was born on the ship.
My feeling is that next year the only live action series we’ll get is SNW s3, so they’re wanting to space things out.
Back in Feb last year Kurtzman was talking about how they wanted shows developing for airing 2-3 years out. Discovery's final season is coming during broadcast this year, meaning you're looking at something filling in the 32nd Century slot in 2024/2025. Of these, that we know of, there is Section 31. Which repeatedly gets delayed because Michelle Yeoh is, quite sensibly, continuing her career while they play grab ass on how to write it. She left Discovery 2 years ago now and seems to be getting plenty of work.
A cheaper small scale show to continue showing off the 32nd Century would logically continue to be the Academy series. It also seemed to be heavily hinted at in stuff like Empire Mag and suchlike last year the Academy was becoming the most developed of the ideas they had in stock.
We're probably hearing more about a continuation of Picard because, ya know, the show's airing right now so of course discourse is "what's next with all this lovely set up?" Matalas just outright saying he wants a Captain Seven show and has apparently been pitching the concept for a little while, is also going to guide conversation that way.
Except this is all before Paramount+ decided to cut back on their streaming shows (especially Trek ones) because the streaming revenue isn’t covering the costs to produce those shows. So why would they make a Starfleet Academy show with Tilly when they’ve already decided to cancel DSC for monetary reasons? Who is going to pay to watch Tilly when they aren’t even watching Burnham?
And forget Section 31, or at least a show with Yeoh. That ship has sailed.
Honestly, anything anyone said one year ago has no bearing on reality now.
I think my first episode I ever watched was Q-Pid, so I was firmly in the Star Trek Family viewing space at the time.
Agreed..I see it thinning out more and more.
My perception is: TOS might've been a show that Gene Roddenberry wanted to aim to adults, but the audience ended up being mostly teenagers and younger adults. TNG was intended as a family show: they maximized their audience by appealing to Baby Boomers, Generation X, and Older Millennials at the same time. DS9, VOY, and ENT were less intended for a specific demographic and more they were trying to hold onto the TNG audience.
The streaming shows are where it gets hairier. Behind a paywall, CBSAA and Paramount+ have tried to get back as many types of fans as they possibly can. I think with SNW and Picard Season 3, they've finally gotten everyone from the old base they're ever going to get. Whoever they haven't gotten from the pre-existing fandom, if they don't have them by now, they never will. So, their best hope to gain more viewers and gain new fans is that kids discover Star Trek through Prodigy, people get drawn in by new movies (that aren't being made!), and new subscribers to Showtime, Paramount+, whatever you want to call it, stumble upon "all these Star Trek shows!" and decide to check them out.
The streaming shows are where it gets hairier. Behind a paywall, CBSAA and Paramount+ have tried to get back as many types of fans as they possibly can. I think with SNW and Picard Season 3, they've finally gotten everyone from the old base they're ever going to get. Whoever they haven't gotten from the pre-existing fandom, if they don't have them by now, they never will. So, their best hope to gain more viewers and gain new fans is that kids discover Star Trek through Prodigy, people get drawn in by new movies (that aren't being made!), and new subscribers to Showtime, Paramount+, whatever you want to call it, stumble upon "all these Star Trek shows!" and decide to check them out.
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I've honestly never understood why anyone wants this show to begin with? I mean, I think Yeoh is an amazing actress, but her character is quite literally Space Hitler. I've heard people talk about redemption, but some character are just beyond being redeemed. And people want this character as the lead in a series? No thanks. If they wanted to make a series with Yeoh as a main character, they never should have killed her off while she was still a likable character.
Space Zho Goa from the Qin Dynasty would be more accurate. But I agree with the broader point, a Section 31 series isn't happening. Not impossible, but I'd be surprised. From here on out, I don't think they're doing any live-action series that aren't SNW or some type of PIC spin-off with Legacy Characters. Like I said before, it's the end of an era.
Everything changed once they decided to downsize. They'll keep cutting back, ultimately sticking with what's considered safe and not polarizing to the audience. It's all pragmatic.
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Modern Trek has been far too safe to begin with, flagship shows like discovery and Picard massively reinventing themselves after every bit of online criticism. I really thought we'd get a 2 more years of Trekkake before the collapse, but perhaps we're standing on the precipice.
Because I like stories about the flower of humanity, as Spock would put it, working towards redemption even if it'd unobtainable.
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