Concerns about the new ST

[eyeresist]

The gender neutral pronoun in English is it. There's nothing wrong with using that pronoun to refer to a person who prefers neither male nor female gender. What do people say when they ask a baby's sex? "Is it a boy or a girl?" Some people may say that it is dehumanizing. But it doesn't have to be if we use it correctly. Just as the word gay changed meanings, so too can it loose its dehumanizing connotation.

I use "they" and "them" a lot, though there are some contexts where it sounds awkward. Still preferable to using some invented word though, IMO.

 

[Zonker]

All words are invented.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Yes, this! Why isn't there a subforum in the "Star Trek TV Series" section? There should be already one under "Enterprise" and the threads about the new series should be moved from here to there.

I would actually prefer if the listing was little bit streamlined. TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT could be moved inside a new subforum.

That way there would only be three forums:
- TOS
- [TNG-ENT-category]
- [New 2017 series]

Or maybe even move TOS in with the other series and just have "Classic series" and "New series" forums. Same as the movies, except that each series would still have their individual forums inside the category.

 

[AviTrek]

I would actually prefer if the listing was little bit streamlined. TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT could be moved inside a new subforum.

That way there would only be three forums:
- TOS
- [TNG-ENT-category]
- [New 2017 series]

Or maybe even move TOS in with the other series and just have "Classic series" and "New series" forums. Same as the movies, except that each series would still have their individual forums inside the category.

If you want that kind of categorization, you're better off waiting to see where the new series fits rather than categorizing everything else and having the new series wrong. Also, from a UI design perspective, the more branching the worse it is for usability. Unless the forum needs to reduce the number of forums at a given level, better to keep all the shows at the same level without the extra branching.

 

[Greg Cox]

I use "they" and "them" a lot, though there are some contexts where it sounds awkward. Still preferable to using some invented word though, IMO.

I'm growing fond of "they" and "their" as opposed to having to write "he or she" all the time when, say, discussing authors in general. It takes a bit of effort to train one's self to do so--instead of defaulting to "he" when talking hypothetically--but you get used to it.

 

[angry apple panda]

I'm growing fond of "they" and "their" as opposed to having to write "he or she" all the time when, say, discussing authors in general. It takes a bit of effort to train one's self to do so--instead of defaulting to "he" when talking hypothetically--but you get used to it.

Is is frustrating that we lack a proper binary-neutral pronoun in English that isn't in some ways dehumanizing (since "it" has connotations of non-personhood attached to it). As a person that veers non-binary with regards to gender myself and also has a lot of friends within the non-binary community, we all tend to prefer the pronouns "they" or "them."

Other languages, like (if I'm remembering correctly) Swedish, have specific person-focused gender neutral pronouns. English needs to catch up! But I've really come to terms in general that my preferred language is a bit of a monstrosity, and I'm trying to accept it.

 

[Greg Cox]

I recently edited a novel in which the protagonist was non-binary. Thankfully, the book is written in the first-person, so the only pronouns we needed were "I" and "me" and "my" . . .

 

[TwoJakes]

Is is frustrating that we lack a proper binary-neutral pronoun in English

Part of the difficulty is those who would be the recipients of this pronoun are not in agreement among themselves as to what that pronoun should be.

 

[JWPlatt]

I recently edited a novel in which the protagonist was non-binary. Thankfully, the book is written in the first-person, so the only pronouns we needed were "I" and "me" and "my" . . .

George Harrison wrote a song about that novel.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Concerning translations. It would be nice if writers would not rely only on she/he pronouns when letting reader know if someone is female or male. It causes problems when translating to a language that does not have gender-specific pronouns.

For example: "They (man & woman) went in, only she came out" needs to be translated to "only woman came out" or "only [character name] came out"

 

[eyeresist]

You're paid to translate, so translate!

 

[Johnny7oak]

I am probably a late comer here, but Mirror Kira and Kira had their moment... yet, Dr. Crusher avoids mating with the new host body who loved her because it wasn't acceptable to her position... Riker dates a slightly gendered non-gender... Trip gets pregnant... there's lots of them... Space is weird... Have you read the Peter David approach on Captain Calhoun... that was kind of oddly mating of a dual gendered alien with a Vulcan with her husbands Katra I'd watch the Excalibur (Ambassador class) in a tale of Calhoun and Shelby (course I am only on book 9)

 

[borgboy]

I think you're confusing New Frontier's Selar with Vanguard's T'Prynn.

 

[Greg Cox]

Concerning translations. It would be nice if writers would not rely only on she/he pronouns when letting reader know if someone is female or male. It causes problems when translating to a language that does not have gender-specific pronouns.

For example: "They (man & woman) went in, only she came out" needs to be translated to "only woman came out" or "only [character name] came out"

Funny story: I was at a convention many years ago, when a reader congratulated me on writing a same-sex romance into a recent story. I was briefly confused since I didn't remember writing any such thing (not that there would have been anything wrong with that) until I realized that I had written the story in first-person--and never actually specified the gender of the narrator.

In my head, the protagonist was a woman, but I guess this reader saw a male byline on the story and assumed that that hero was male as well . .. and involved with another man.

 

[borgboy]

Funny story: I was at a convention many years ago, when a reader congratulated me on writing a same-sex romance into a recent story. I was briefly confused since I didn't remember writing any such thing (not that there would have been anything wrong with that) until I realized that I had written the story in first-person--and never actually specified the gender of the narrator.

In my head, the protagonist was a woman, but I guess this reader saw a male byline on the story and assumed that that hero was male as well . .. and involved with another man.

That's interesting that it worked well with either gender. What is the name of the story/where can we find it?

 

[Greg Cox]

That's interesting that it worked well with either gender. What is the name of the story/where can we find it?

It was called "Hana and His Synapses" and it appeared in a now-defunct magazine, ABORIGINAL SF, way back in January 1989. It was a spoof of cyberpunk, which was the hot thing in SF back then, and the title is a play on old Woody Allen movie!

Alas, it's never been reprinted.

 

[Cake]

"S/he" depends so heavily on being an English construct, which wouldn't likely work in any other language (are your books available in multiple languages? What do you do?), that while I use it in written English at times, it still feels artificial to use for an alien, especially if spoken. How about borrowing a real gender-neutral word from a different language than English such as the German neuter "das?" Would that be too difficult for the reader? Or make up something.

But "das" just means "the". How can it be used in the same way as "he" or "she"? It is a completely different type of word.

 

[Johnny7oak]

I am probably a late comer here, but Mirror Kira and Kira had their moment... yet, Dr. Crusher avoids mating with the new host body who loved her because it wasn't acceptable to her position... Riker dates a slightly gendered non-gender... Trip gets pregnant... there's lots of them... Space is weird... Have you read the Peter David approach on Captain Calhoun... that was kind of oddly mating of a dual gendered alien with a Vulcan with her husbands Katra I'd watch the Excalibur (Ambassador class) in a tale of Calhoun and Shelby (course I am only on book 9)

Hermat CEO and Dr. Selar is what I am referring too... Selar's husband dies while mating with Selar... kind of a spoiler... but the book series reminds me of Jerry springer... Calhoun and Xylon (son and captain), Calhoun and Shelby, Xylon and Sir Cswan's little sister... its a weird series... oh and Robin Lefler's mom drops in as the never dying human genome. Additionally, there's the Redeemers... the great bird of the galaxy, and a giant cloud of system death... and Robyn Lefler is after Sir Cswan... (edit: Dog people too)

 

[borgboy]

I love New Frontier, but Selar doesn't have her husband's katra.

 

[angry apple panda]

But "das" just means "the". How can it be used in the same way as "he" or "she"? It is a completely different type of word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun)
Swedish has a gender neutral personal pronoun which works better than "das."