I'd like that record, on paper, in duplicate please. I'd hate to think you were being insincere or anything.
Concerns about the new ST
- Thread starter AdmiralBruno
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I'd like that record, on paper, in duplicate please. I'd hate to think you were being insincere or anything.
My concern for the new show is that with only 13 episodes per season (unless this is just the order for this season and/or they change it for later seasons) and a single "main" story for each season, that the show will miss out on those one-off episodes that occasionally really shine. I am thinking of "Parallels", "Cause and Effect", "Trials and Tribble-ations", "Children of Time", "Blink of an Eye", and "Living Witness".
Star Trek has a limited history of true arc storytelling (DS9 Season 6 episodes 1-6, DS9 Season 7, episodes 17+, Enterprise season 3), but within them they don't have a lot of examples of one-offs. "Rocks and Shoals" feels separate, but still is within the whole "start of the war" storyline, "Extreme Measures" is similar in that it isn't as integrated into the "final arc" storyline as the other 8 episodes, but it still ends the Section 31 "arc" and continues the founder's disease arc.
I guess Enterprise season 3 does do this, but it has been a while since I watched it, and other than Twighlight and E2 I don't remember any standout episodes and they seemed very tied into the Xindi arc. Maybe these are two good examples as they are sort-of one-offs, but also fit the season-long story arc.
Long story short, I hope ST2017 has room for those great one-off stories that might not totally fit into a on-going, season long, story (though I am looking forward to character and story continuity - something seriously lacking in my current Voyager rewatch).
Star Trek has a limited history of true arc storytelling (DS9 Season 6 episodes 1-6, DS9 Season 7, episodes 17+, Enterprise season 3), but within them they don't have a lot of examples of one-offs. "Rocks and Shoals" feels separate, but still is within the whole "start of the war" storyline, "Extreme Measures" is similar in that it isn't as integrated into the "final arc" storyline as the other 8 episodes, but it still ends the Section 31 "arc" and continues the founder's disease arc.
I guess Enterprise season 3 does do this, but it has been a while since I watched it, and other than Twighlight and E2 I don't remember any standout episodes and they seemed very tied into the Xindi arc. Maybe these are two good examples as they are sort-of one-offs, but also fit the season-long story arc.
Long story short, I hope ST2017 has room for those great one-off stories that might not totally fit into a on-going, season long, story (though I am looking forward to character and story continuity - something seriously lacking in my current Voyager rewatch).
Paper? I have no paper, but since you asked, I have links from posts I authored right here that touch on the topic:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-beyond.270580/page-190#post-11580250
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/alie...-hicks-and-bishop.274602/page-5#post-11236507
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/fant...-spoilers-likely.274997/page-10#post-11235227
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tuc-not-aged-well.274892/page-5#post-11234282
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/anyo...tastic-four-movie.274604/page-4#post-11233265
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/pegg-updates-on-script.268294/page-10#post-10978012
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/i-st...-than-star-wars-7.259714/page-4#post-10419319
I was going to list all the links above twice to satisfy your duplicate demand, but it felt too silly. Maybe print this post twice to your printer?
We don't know if the show is going to be serialized, stand alone, or a mix. Being 13 episodes doesn't mean any of the above have been confirmed - all it means is that there are going to be 13 episodes.
For the most part Fuller's shows have been stand alone with ongoing threads within them. It could be the statement the show will tell a story over 13 episodes will be more of the same.
Wonderfalls had a new "quest" to complete each episode, even if the overwhelming arc was Jay reconnecting with her family, falling in love, and trying to find out wtf was happening to her.
Pushing Daisies a new murder to solve every week, with an ongoing thread of the pie maker and the dead girls love affair.
Hannibal was more serialized but still had its share of procedural crimes to solve.
At this point we know literally nothing about the production beyond the fact that it's being made by an All Star team of writers. There is quite literally nothing available to be concerned about. There can be things you hope for, but concern is pretty premature.
For the most part Fuller's shows have been stand alone with ongoing threads within them. It could be the statement the show will tell a story over 13 episodes will be more of the same.
Wonderfalls had a new "quest" to complete each episode, even if the overwhelming arc was Jay reconnecting with her family, falling in love, and trying to find out wtf was happening to her.
Pushing Daisies a new murder to solve every week, with an ongoing thread of the pie maker and the dead girls love affair.
Hannibal was more serialized but still had its share of procedural crimes to solve.
At this point we know literally nothing about the production beyond the fact that it's being made by an All Star team of writers. There is quite literally nothing available to be concerned about. There can be things you hope for, but concern is pretty premature.
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So, you lied. Good to know what your word is worth.
Actually, we do know a little more. I didn't reference it because I figured everyone knew it, but Fuller gave an interview where he said they had figured out the story (note: singular) for the first season and had broken the first six episodes (plus some additional info on shooting). Now there could be some additional fine details on how this "story" breaks down but it sounds like one big story to me.
Best case, and this is what I hope for, is that there are smaller stories that take place within the big one. For all the benefits of serialized storytelling, it also has the drawback of not having contained, stories that end. There are shows like The Wire or Breaking Bad or Daredevil (for a more recent example) that are good, but I can't really imagine ever sitting down to watch just one episode or story cause they just run on.
I hope this isn't the case with ST2017.
This.
I think of a few things; One being that the show will be more tightly plotted, and there will not be "filler" episodes. As much as I love the older series, they did have episodes now and then that seemed to just fill out the seasons. I'd rather see a show planned out and have the writers and showrunners excited about what they are doing, rather than just punching a clock and whipping out episodes to satisfy 22-26 episodes a year.
It's definitely a kind of storytelling that Trek is mostly alien to, save for a couple instances in various series. And, of course, there was DS9. DS9 was the serial storytelling experiment. Enterprise did it too, although I don't personally think they were able to make it that compelling for very long. Traditional Star Trek is episodic, and even when they took it serial, there were always side-plots and B stories to fill things out. Honestly, I think part of the "feel" of classic Trek is its generally episodic nature. It's nostalgic.
And now we've got a fully-realized serial Star Trek series. It's definitely going to feel different.
But I welcome change. I'm excited to see what happens.
This bothered me the first time I read it, but I didn't take the time to post my rejection of the concept as far too simplistic and maybe even idealistic or wishful thinking. But now that jonesy has also quoted it as being righteous with a perfunctory "This," I must object.
If an episode costs $5m, you generally multiply that by the number of episodes to get the much more responsible annual total. You don't start with a total and divide by the number of episodes to determine the cost per-episode. That's unfair and unrealistic in both directions:
1. You get a $250m annual budget for 13 shows to far overspend $19m per episode.
2. You get a $25m annual budget for 22 shows to underspend $1.1m per episode.
The truth would be somewhere in between with a more complex formula because episode costs will vary, can be managed, and there is ultimately an annual budget, possibly determined by anticipated revenue the show might generate. But you don't just start with a magical budget and divide by the number of episodes you'd like to see. You're not going to win that pitch to the studio.
But, if the anticipated revenue of the 13 episode series could reasonably be considered to be even remotely comparable to the anticipated revenue of the 26 episode series (which is certainly plausible considering the very high reputation of many streaming series currently on the market and the fact that the streaming format itself fundamentally alters the way the revenue works, making it far less dependant on having lots of episodes to air advertisements in), then it's entirely plausible that the 13 episode show could reasonably be given a budget that is proportionally far higher than what the 26 episode show could get.
It's definitely a kind of storytelling that Trek is mostly alien to, save for a couple instances in various series. And, of course, there was DS9. DS9 was the serial storytelling experiment. Enterprise did it too, although I don't personally think they were able to make it that compelling for very long. Traditional Star Trek is episodic, and even when they took it serial, there were always side-plots and B stories to fill things out. Honestly, I think part of the "feel" of classic Trek is its generally episodic nature. It's nostalgic.
And now we've got a fully-realized serial Star Trek series. It's definitely going to feel different.
But I welcome change. I'm excited to see what happens.
I am too. I will save comments about Enterprise, other than the less said the better. I like DS9 the more I see it, and if they can take some from that show all the better.
I was thinking about Wayoung's comments regarding Fuller's endeavors. Stand alone episodes with ongoing threads, as in Wonderfalls.
Hasn't something similar been done with Dr. Who?
Hasn't something similar been done with Dr. Who?
I'm guessing you meant Wonderfalls and were autocorrected?
I'm hoping so because Wonderfalls is AWESOME and not enough people know of it. My favourite of Fuller's shows, possibly because he made it with Tim Minear so it had that sharp Mutant Enemy dialogue mixed in with Fuller - ian whimsy.
Yes, I enjoyed that show too. That is, "Wonderfulls" when it was autocorrected.
Quite an imaginative series.
Quite an imaginative series.
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It's always funny how little Trek fans seem to understand the philosophy espoused by the show they're fans of. IDIC anyone?
A philosophy developed to push GR's trinkets to sell, that even Nimoy was made uncomfortable by the original script and worked to have it changed?
Sorry, as much as I understand the appeal of IDIC and the concept of universal brotherhood (humanhood?) it represents, it is partially undermined by its original sales pitch by GR himself.
Now, am I arguing against IDIC? No. But, I don't see the appeal of throwing around buzz words and expecting them to stick just because "Star Trek."
I don't think it undermines it. I mean, GR could have been pushing a range of toy weapons and toy soldier-type figurines, but instead he tried to make a buck off peace, love and understanding. Indeed, you could argue that that's what Star Trek was all about. That "contradiction" is totally in keeping with GR's character and his ideals.
That's another way of looking at it. It's hard to not be put off by the initial presentation, at least for me. But, I see your point.
Personally, as much as I can respect the philosophy of IDIC, I don't always appreciate the way its tossed about like every Star Trek fan knows what it is or can appreciate it. Compassion and understanding can go so much further than just "IDIC everyone."
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