Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Turtletrekker]

Their "Level" system is so ill-defined. In The Consultant, Sitwell was shocked to learn there even was a Level 7. When Loki steals the Tesseract, Fury says, "This is a Level 7. As of right now, we are at war."

This makes it sound like Level seven is pull out the stops, all hands on deck, end of the world type stuff, but then they classify the Overkill Device as level 8 threat? Bigger than the Tesseract? Really?

 

[The Old Mixer]

SHIELD is confusing....Kick their asses, Cap!

 

[Reverend]

Their "Level" system is so ill-defined. In The Consultant, Sitwell was shocked to learn there even was a Level 7. When Loki steals the Tesseract, Fury says, "This is a Level 7. As of right now, we are at war."

This makes it sound like Level seven is pull out the stops, all hands on deck, end of the world type stuff, but then they classify the Overkill Device as level 8 threat? Bigger than the Tesseract? Really?

I think there are two different rating systems at work here. Security clearance level and emergency level (the latter being more akin to a defcon scale.) Though they both use the word "level" and have numbers in them, the two scales need not be equivalent to one another.

Yes its confusing, but this is what happens when writers just want to sound cool and don't give much thought to world building.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, I think it's clear they're entirely separate. One is clearance level, the other is threat level. It seems pretty clear that, if something is a threat level 7, more than just level 7 clearance would be involved - it'll be an all hands on deck type situation. To make it clearer, Threat Level 7 seems to be analogous to DEFCON 1, while Level 8 Clearance seems to be analogous to "Top Secret" clearance (although both seem to rely on Compartmentalizing information, so they'll have Special Access Programs on top of the levels of secrecy).

The clearance level thing, iirc, was created in the one shots and adopted into the series as a major component. Threat level was only said in the Avengers, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think the Overkill device required SHIELD to be at Threat Level 8 based on any dialog and I agree that the Tesseract is more significant of a threat than the Overkill device. The Overkill device had a high level of clearance because it involved sensitive political issues and was a covert operation, not because it was the more serious threat (which, as I said, would seem to necessitate greater sharing of information, not less).

I'll agree that the terminology is confusing, but, unless I'm misremembering something from The Hub, the terms have at least been kept separate and are, by themselves, relatively logical.

 

[Jolaris]

It seems I remembered my security levels wrong, my bad.

I don't think the Overkill device required SHIELD to be at Threat Level 8 based on any dialog and I agree that the Tesseract is more significant of a threat than the Overkill device.

Indeed, shouldn't the threat level for the Tesseract have been... *puts on sunglasses* Infinity...

 

[Yminale]

Anyway...

I think the whole bringing back Coulson back from the dead is leading to something about how comics never truly kill off characters. Normally this would be a Wheldonesque farce but as portrayed it's pretty dark and disturbing.

Plus why did Fury bring him back? It's not like SHIELD needs super-agents since they have Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Mei around. Could it have something to do with Skye?

 

[Mr Light]

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.

 

[Yminale]

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.

There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend. He was at best a competent field agent (who more often than not got over his head).

I have a crazy idea about the big reveal. Coulson is not the only one SHIELD brought back from the dead, the ENTIRE TEAM at one time or another was brought back from the DEAD. That agent Skye thinks is her mother is actually HER and they somehow regenerated her body. Mei actually DIED during "the Calvary" mission and that's why she failed to save anyone. Ward mentioned that his brother tried to drown him. Maybe he succeeded and SHIELD brought him back when he died as a child. Fitz-Simmons, victims of some lab experiment gone wrong (Tesseract explosion ?). Coulson was the latest in a long line of successful experiments and Fury wanted to see how they interact with each other (and also to keep them in one place to watch over them).

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^ There's no indication they aren't friends, though, it's just silent either way. I'm not entirely sure Fury has "friends" (at least in the sense that the other person is aware they are his friend).

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.

Why does it have to be Asgardian? Is there anything from the comics about Asgardians resurrecting the dead? It certainly could be alien, don't get me wrong, but calling it "Asgardian" is becoming a crutch in too many fan theories.

 

[Yminale]

Why does it have to be Asgardian? Is there anything from the comics about Asgardians resurrecting the dead? It certainly could be alien, don't get me wrong, but calling it "Asgardian" is becoming a crutch in too many fan theories.

Yeah fans seem to forget about another possibility, HYDRA! They may have experimented with resurrection technology and we don't know what happened to Arnim Zola after the first Captain America movie.

Plus resurrection technology is a logical offshoot of Super-Soldier experiments. That's probably why CENTIPEDE was so interested.

 

[Christopher]

There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend.

Didn't Fury say Coulson was his "one good eye?" That's rather sentimental.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm assuming it's Asgardian because

a) in the small MCU, Asgard is *the* big fantastical element
b) they kept saying ungodly and heavenly and stuff in this episode
c) when Coulson died they showed a fancy starscape
d) they also showed a weird glowy golden vial, isn't that similar to the Odinsleep and what they used on Natalie in Thor 2?

 

[Yminale]

There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend.

Didn't Fury say Coulson was his "one good eye?" That's rather sentimental.

Sentimentality doesn't necessarily imply friendship. Plus Coulson would need to be something like Fury's blood brother, if affection was the ONLY reason he was brought back. (of course if Fury's plan was for Coulson to lead a squad of undead agents )

 

[Yminale]

I'm assuming it's Asgardian because

a) in the small MCU, Asgard is *the* big fantastical element

Disagree

1. There is normal human super-science (Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America)

2. Galactic superpowers (*cough* Thanos and his sorta girlfriend DEATH *cough*)

3. The Infinity gems

4. Mutants (not officially part of the MCU but part of the normal Marvel Universe)

5. Real magic ala Doctor Strange.

Oh and I forget to mention STAN LEE.

 

[theenglish]

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.

There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend. He was at best a competent field agent (who more often than not got over his head).

I have a crazy idea about the big reveal. Coulson is not the only one SHIELD brought back from the dead, the ENTIRE TEAM at one time or another was brought back from the DEAD. That agent Skye thinks is her mother is actually HER and they somehow regenerated her body. Mei actually DIED during "the Calvary" mission and that's why she failed to save anyone. Ward mentioned that his brother tried to drown him. Maybe he succeeded and SHIELD brought him back when he died as a child. Fitz-Simmons, victims of some lab experiment gone wrong (Tesseract explosion ?). Coulson was the latest in a long line of successful experiments and Fury wanted to see how they interact with each other (and also to keep them in one place to watch over them).

This is a neat idea, but doesn't explain what was important about all of these people that they needed to be brought back. I also don't think Fury would bring Coulson back to life just because they were friends--there needs to be a better reason.

While we are waiting to find out what the reason is, I think that the "reveal" has the potential to provide some serious character moments. For example, what if Coulson starts to question his odd decisions, such as talking the guy into killing himself a few weeks back? Coulson could start to wonder if he is taking unnecessary risks because of his own mental state, thus putting missions in jeopardy.

I also really liked Skye this episode, for the first time since the second show of the series. Hopefully this show will continue to improve for the rest of the season.

 

[bbjeg]

... Mutants (not officially part of the MCU but part of the normal Marvel Universe)...

I hear they're solving that problem with the Inhumans.

 

[Mr Light]

what I say MCU I meant the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So no Death, no Dr Strange, no mutants, and SHIELD/humanity isn't aware of the Infinity "Stones" or Thanos yet. (they don't know the Tesseract is a Stone)

 

[Yminale]

I'm guessing that Fury already had his hands on some controversial experimental resurrection technology, probably from Asgard, and decided to use it on Coulson because he was his friend.

There is no indication that Coulson was Fury's friend. He was at best a competent field agent (who more often than not got over his head).

I have a crazy idea about the big reveal. Coulson is not the only one SHIELD brought back from the dead, the ENTIRE TEAM at one time or another was brought back from the DEAD. That agent Skye thinks is her mother is actually HER and they somehow regenerated her body. Mei actually DIED during "the Calvary" mission and that's why she failed to save anyone. Ward mentioned that his brother tried to drown him. Maybe he succeeded and SHIELD brought him back when he died as a child. Fitz-Simmons, victims of some lab experiment gone wrong (Tesseract explosion ?). Coulson was the latest in a long line of successful experiments and Fury wanted to see how they interact with each other (and also to keep them in one place to watch over them).

This is a neat idea, but doesn't explain what was important about all of these people that they needed to be brought back.

They were talented people who's corpses SHIELD had access to at the the time. We don't know how many people SHIELD experimented on or even how many methods are available (it's implied more than 6). Just according to my hypothesis we have these 6 successes.

Besides I don't think SHIELD would kill someone just so they can bring him/her back. They tried whenever there was an opportunity to do so.

Personally the idea the SHIELD can resurrect the dead is cooler than the lame LMD's.

 

[Yminale]

what I say MCU I meant the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So no Death, no Dr Strange, no mutants, and SHIELD/humanity isn't aware of the Infinity "Stones" or Thanos yet. (they don't know the Tesseract is a Stone)

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch will be in Avengers 2. The Dr Strange movie is still moving forward. Thanos (and Galactus) do exist in the MCU as well as the Infinity whatevers. It doesn't matter that humans know about them.

 

[bbjeg]

^Galactus (and the Fantastic Four) are in the X-men's movie universe.