Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Greg Cox]

I don't think the gay thing was just a myth. That was a long time ago, but "Bruce" really was, back in the sixties, practically a punchline when it came to gay jokes and comedy skits on shows like "Laugh-In,'"the Johnny Carson Show, and the like. There seems to be some confusion as to how this got started, but if a character said (with a lisp) that his name was Bruce, audiences would roar accordingly, getting the joke . . . or so I recall

Needless to say, this was a less enlightened time . . .

 

[Christopher]

But in addition to Bruce Jenner, Bruce Lee had died just four years earlier and was a major action icon by that point. And Bruce Dern was at the peak of his career around then, though he wasn't an action star. So whatever connotations the name may have had in the '60s, I think they were probably changing by 1977.

Also, the makers of Batman just a decade before, or the animated The New Adventures of Batman debuting in the same year as Hulk, hadn't felt the need to change Bruce Wayne's name.

So maybe there were some people involved in the production, or at the network, who expressed such sentiments about the name, but I have a hard time believing that would've been the exclusive reason for the change. Whereas Kenneth Johnson desiring to distance himself from the comic-book cliche of alliterative names is entirely in character.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But in addition to Bruce Jenner, Bruce Lee had died just four years earlier and was a major action icon by that point. And Bruce Dern was at the peak of his career around then, though he wasn't an action star. So whatever connotations the name may have had in the '60s, I think they were probably changing by 1977.

Plus we had recently seen the future of Rock and Roll and it's name was Bruce Springsteen.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There was some dialogue from the US version of Men Behaving Badly circa 1997.

(Rob Schneider opens the door in a velvet smoking robe to the precious Dina Waters. Rob is obviously crying because something very unsettling has happened.)

What's the matter Jamie?

I saw the new Batman movie and it's just awful.

Was it really that bad?

Well, yes, but no, it's that they've turned the Dynamic Duo into two elegant gay men. (sob)

But Jamie, Batman and Robin have always been sorta gay.

I know, I know, (sob) but it's always been subtext, (sob) it's always been subtext (sob).

...

Drew Carey in season 4 of his sitcom won the Batmobile in a scratcher competition, but by the end of the episode, he loses the car by breaking the Morals clause in the competition contract by being caught having sex in the Batmobile in a public park with his girlfriend Kate Walsh from Greys Anatomy.

After hearing this Diedritch Bader exclaims "Morals clause!? Didn't Batman keep a boy in a cave?"

 

[The Old Mixer]

Could be a little of both...Johnson didn't like the alliteration, and the fact that he thought Bruce sounded gay determined which half of the name had to go.

Funnily enough regarding the alliteration, he cast an actor for the role who had the same initials as the comic book character....

 

[Forbin]

Putting on my editor's hat for a minute, it's amazing how many otherwise sensible writers put characters named Lora, Linda, and Lenore in the same book. Or maybe Dave, Dan, and Donald.

Do not do this! I actually keep lists of the characters in my books just to make sure the names don't sound too much alike.

A friend of mine once wrote a treatment for a direct-to-vid detective movie. As I'm reading it for him, I asked if the two characters"Tanji Walker" and "Trish Walker" are sisters or something. He smacked himself in the forehead. He didn't even realize he'd used the same last name for both of them.

 

[Forbin]

In my first-grade homeroom (I think it was), there were three students named Robert. The teacher decided (maybe with some consultation of the three for their preferences) to refer to them respectively as Robert, Robby, and Rob.

Same here, three Johns! The teacher had to call us by our full names every time.

At home, we lived in a mother/daughter house with my father's parents, which gave us three Johns at home too. Dad referred to us, in descending age order, as "John the Father, John the Son, and John the Holy Terror."

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Could be a little of both...Johnson didn't like the alliteration, and the fact that he thought Bruce sounded gay determined which half of the name had to go.

Funnily enough regarding the alliteration, he cast an actor for the role who had the same initials as the comic book character....

Never thought about that, "Bruce Banner is ridiculously alliterative, no one will believe that. And get me that Bill Bixby guy on the phone."

 

[Vendikarr]

Putting on my editor's hat for a minute, it's amazing how many otherwise sensible writers put characters named Lora, Linda, and Lenore in the same book. Or maybe Dave, Dan, and Donald.

Do not do this! I actually keep lists of the characters in my books just to make sure the names don't sound too much alike.

This reminds me of a fan fiction I read recently. It was a cross over of Supernatural and Burn Notice. It was a nightmare trying to keep Sam Winchester and Sam Axe straight. The writer had problems with it, so naturally the reader would as well.

 

[Christopher]

Could be a little of both...Johnson didn't like the alliteration, and the fact that he thought Bruce sounded gay determined which half of the name had to go.

Ferrigno's claim is that it was the CBS network executives, not Johnson, who had a problem with the name Bruce. Given Johnson's overall body of work, I'm inclined to doubt that he was homophobic, at least relative to the standards of his time. His shows tended to promote inclusion and respect for diversity. Alien Nation in particular explored alternative sexuality through the allegorical lens of its alien characters.

I think Johnson made the choice to avoid comic-bookiness. And maybe somebody at the network made fun of the name "Bruce" somewhere along the line and that got more attention because it was more sensationalist. People will always glom onto the more sensationalist or scandalous explanations for things, exaggerate them, mythologize them. That's why it's important to be skeptical of them. Real life is generally a lot less dramatic than the stories we concoct about it after the fact.

Same here, three Johns! The teacher had to call us by our full names every time.

At home, we lived in a mother/daughter house with my father's parents, which gave us three Johns at home too. Dad referred to us, in descending age order, as "John the Father, John the Son, and John the Holy Terror."

Good one.

Tor.com recently posted an amazing old radio interview with H.G. Wells and Orson Welles, from sometime after the War of the Worlds radio broadcast and before Citizen Kane came out, and the formality of the time meant that the announcer couldn't just address them by their given names, so he had to take care to refer to "Mister H.G. Wells" and "Mister Orson Welles" every single time he mentioned or addressed them.

 

[Greg Cox]

Putting on my editor's hat for a minute, it's amazing how many otherwise sensible writers put characters named Lora, Linda, and Lenore in the same book. Or maybe Dave, Dan, and Donald.

Do not do this! I actually keep lists of the characters in my books just to make sure the names don't sound too much alike.

A friend of mine once wrote a treatment for a direct-to-vid detective movie. As I'm reading it for him, I asked if the two characters"Tanji Walker" and "Trish Walker" are sisters or something. He smacked himself in the forehead. He didn't even realize he'd used the same last name for both of them.

I edited a mystery novel once in which every single character lived on the third floor of a building. This was not a deliberate choice on the part of the author; just a habit she got into without realizing it.

"Madeline Turnbull lived in in a third-floor walkup in the East Village," etc.

 

[Kytee]

Just had a chance to watch this on Saturday and I quite enjoyed it. So far I like the characters, the technobabble duo made me smile whenever they were on screen, and I love the Phil Coulson character ( combination of the writing and acting ) The overall story of the episode was alright but I think weaker then we will see in the future as they were trying to introduce the cast this episode.

Did anyone else get the impression that the hacker girl will turn out to be a Super hacker. As in, some sort of super powers involved ( Kinda like Amadeus Cho? ) They seemed stress more then once how she accomplished so much with just her laptop, it felt to me that they were hinting at something.

Cant wait for the next episode,
Kytee

 

[Christopher]

^Given that most TV/movie hackers are impossibly adept superhackers, Skye's abilities didn't stand out to me as anything more than that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Just wait until she gets jiggered by Extremis and she can Hack computers with her mind.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Could be a little of both...Johnson didn't like the alliteration, and the fact that he thought Bruce sounded gay determined which half of the name had to go.

Funnily enough regarding the alliteration, he cast an actor for the role who had the same initials as the comic book character....

Never thought about that, "Bruce Banner is ridiculously alliterative, no one will believe that. And get me that Bill Bixby guy on the phone."

Johnson: "And don't worry, Bill, we changed your character's name. I can't think of anything more ridiculous than somebody whose first and last initials are both 'B'!"

Bixby: "..."

 

[Turtletrekker]

While I think the writer of this article from CBR may be stretching things a bit to say that Marvel is "teasing a Nick Fury cameo" in "0-8-4", he did rightly point out that the eagle in the SHIELD logo in the preview for the episode is wearing Fury's eye-patch (See my new avatar).

ETA: Huh. Now Super Hero Hype is saying the same thing.

ETA Again: As is Bleeding Cool. And again they mention the eye-patch on the logo.

My earlier skepticism is turning into something else. Color me intrigued.

 

[Dream]

I really doubt Fury will be making a cameo. SLJ is too big for tv right now. If they could have done it, they would have had Fury in the pilot not in the middle of the season.

 

[Christopher]

^Episode 2 is the middle of the season? What is this, Sherlock?

 

[sojourner]

I really doubt Fury will be making a cameo. SLJ is too big for tv right now. If they could have done it, they would have had Fury in the pilot not in the middle of the season.

But putting him in the second episode is smarter. They already knew everyone would tune in for the pilot. What better way to keep the numbers from falling with the second episode than to have a bit of stunt casting?

 

[Turtletrekker]

I really doubt Fury will be making a cameo. SLJ is too big for tv right now. If they could have done it, they would have had Fury in the pilot not in the middle of the season.

But putting him in the second episode is smarter. They already knew everyone would tune in for the pilot. What better way to keep the numbers from falling with the second episode than to have a bit of stunt casting?

My thoughts exactly.