I corrected a typo.You say I'm stretching when you went back and edited your original claim so you could argue something completely different?
Spoilers Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread
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So how did they explain that it wasn't cloaking tech. You apparently know this episode better than everyone in the thread, so you should be be able to rattle off specific examples of dialogue, right?
What would @Stewey say?
Uhm, what now? That is not a drone ship that decloaks in “Minefield”.
A pretty wild claim. What claim was changed? Keep in mind that as a mod I can see edits to all posts.You say I'm stretching when you went back and edited your original claim so you could argue something completely different?
I remember very well being on TrekBBS while Enterprise was on the air having these exact same conversations. Particularly around the Borg, the Ferengi, transporters, phase pistols, and oh yes, the Romulan cloaking device.
I didn’t care then and I don’t care now.
Look, I couldn’t give a shit if canon is “respected,” or if the technology tracks on what was onscreen before. At the end of the day, this is a fictional universe where things do what the writers want them to do and warp is always at the speed of the plot. The number of “canon violations,” have been too numerous to count, but as fans, we have certainly tried.
And we wave our hands at so many things and say it’s fine until something new comes along that we decide we’re going to hate because it’s new. But then we revisit it in ten years because it’s not bad. Hell, it might actually be pretty good.
Maybe we can skip the hating part and actually try to enjoy a show for what it is as opposed to what it did differently than what came before.
Just my $0.02.
I didn’t care then and I don’t care now.
Look, I couldn’t give a shit if canon is “respected,” or if the technology tracks on what was onscreen before. At the end of the day, this is a fictional universe where things do what the writers want them to do and warp is always at the speed of the plot. The number of “canon violations,” have been too numerous to count, but as fans, we have certainly tried.
And we wave our hands at so many things and say it’s fine until something new comes along that we decide we’re going to hate because it’s new. But then we revisit it in ten years because it’s not bad. Hell, it might actually be pretty good.
Maybe we can skip the hating part and actually try to enjoy a show for what it is as opposed to what it did differently than what came before.
Just my $0.02.
Here's a better one:
TUCKER: What if they didn't see us coming? We've still got that Suliban cell-ship, the one we used to rescue Klaang from the Helix. I've been working on it in my free time. I'm pretty close to figuring out how it works. If I can bring the cloak on line, we can get past their defences, grab our people, and no one will see a thing.
(Communicator)
No longer theoretical at all if one of Starfleet's Engineers and a Vulcan Science Officer know how to work with it and make it work.
Canon is not something that requires respect, as Star Trek has demonstrated again and again.
Sorry. I was thinking of Babel one. Babel one takes place after Minefield. It clearly explains how romulan primitive cloak tech works.Its holographics and sensor deception. Its not the cloak tech we see in tos. So its not the battle ready cloak we see in TOS. That one is not holography or sensor deception. Its a true cloak.
Sussman in the episode Babel one exposed how the early experimental romulan cloaking worked. It was not what we saw in tos.
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The fact that Star Trek still holds up so remarkably well from an internal consistency point of view speaks volumes for how good the overall writing has been, or at least competent. It's been consistent enough for me to know that the writers are usually trying, even if subconsciously.
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Because I said NX01 was a federation starship? 
I'll grant that that was a mistake on my part, but it doesn't change the point of what I was saying in the slightest. No one, human or Vulcan, should have seen Romulans with cloaks in the 22nd century according to Balance of terror, no matter what the class of Starship was
I'll grant that that was a mistake on my part, but it doesn't change the point of what I was saying in the slightest. No one, human or Vulcan, should have seen Romulans with cloaks in the 22nd century according to Balance of terror, no matter what the class of Starship was
Nothing about the wording in that post has been changed in any edit. As you can see in the comparison between the original post and the edited version, the only thing that’s different is the change from ' to " in the episode title. You even quoted the original version of that post in your post immediately after this one. And even if Turtletrekker had changed something about the post, it wouldn’t have transferred to your quote of it. So I honestly don’t understand where the claim that he “went back and edited [his] original claim” comes from. Nothing like this happened.
Hoop jumping for sure. Both Romulan and Suliban have cloaks that are witnessed and understood by Starfleet personnel. This is no longer consistent with Spock's "invisibility is theoretically possible." line. There's no qualifier that Spock puts forth of "battle ready."
Heck, in Season 3 Kirk's crew are still stunned the Romulans have an invisibility screen and cloak. YOU GUYS LITERALLY ENCOUNTERED SHIPS LIKE THIS LESS THAN TWO YEARS AGO.
TOS wasn't even consistent with its own canon.
TOS wasn't even consistent with its own canon.
Well I, for one am, shocked.
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Spock explains how a proper cloaking device thats battle ready would work. We saw it in tos. End of line.
For what it's worth, I remember someone from Enterprise's writing staff, Braga or Sussman outright admitting after Minefield aired they just plain forgot Romulans shouldn't have cloaking devices in that era. I actually remember the discussions here on Trek BBS when that statement was made, with half frothing at the mouth proclaiming Enterprise to be an abomination which should be cancelled and its writers fired and the other half talking about mistakes are inevitable due to the demands which come with making television. And then both sides argued with each other viciously.
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
The Romulans having the cloak in "MINEFIELD" was a big canon error, but at least it delivered an excellent, tense episode.
By season 4 we saw more from the romulans and sussman put it in the babel one episode how they worked. The "cloaks" in the 22nd century were a combination of holographic tech and sensor trickery. So that episode is part of canon and tells the viewer that romulan cloak tech wasn't the same as it was in tos. Sussman wanted it fixed and he fixed it.
Kurtzman Trek far mire canon violations that cant be fixed now. He has spock just a couple years before kirks enterprise having relations with Chapel, Khans great granddaughter, he knows Korby very well. All thay never comes up in tos. Its clear by tos it never happened. Now we have klingons with regular teeth. Betazoids with human eyes and seemingly with powers strikingly different than what Luwana or Deanna Trio had. In the STD 23rd century timeframe we have fun housee turbo lifts and a engine technology that even 32nd century starfleet couldn't match. Also the 32nd century doesnt look any nore advanced than the STD/SNW 23rd century. End of line.
Which sometimes is more important.
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