How to resolve 6 Voyager Inconsistencies in 85 seconds

[Oddish]

Hmmm....maybe. But then we would have lost that scene when Janeway and Chakotay enters the Shuttle bay to say goodbye to those who had decided to leave the ship and there's no one there.

It just didn't make sense to me, though. Of 150 people on the ship, every single one chooses to risk the nearly impossible journey home on a ship with limited resources and amenities, instead of living out their lives in a relatively safe place? Including 30 people who never wanted anything to do with Starfleet in the first place?

Janeway would need cult leader level charisma to pull that off!

Did that vendetta start already in the early seasons of the series? What had poor Garret done to wake the fury of the "gods"?

By his own admission, he made some poor choices. Enough that they were at least considering firing him and presumably killing off his character. For reasons that vary by who you ask, they went after Jennifer Lien instead. But, it's very possible that someone upstairs wasn't happy about this.

One indication of this is that Wang was the only person not given a chance to direct an episode. But i think the biggest tell is that he stayed an ensign the whole series, even in the face of viewer complaints, when every other recurring ensign on every previous Trek was promoted at some point.

Im not so sure that the character would grow by being beaten up the way he did in that episode.

Trauma and loss of innocence often have that effect. And they cause you to rise above yourself, as Harry did. And, it could have strengthened his friendship with Tom. Just as you get emotional at the end of "The 37's", I'm affected by Tom's last words to Harry in "The Chute".

Ah, come on now! Tony DiNozzo is funny! Number 2 on my NCIS favorite list after Gibbs.

I'm not saying he wasn't funny, and that I actively disliked him... but you have to admit, he was a prick to McGee sometimes.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not saying he wasn't funny, and that I actively disliked him... but you have to admit, he was a prick to McGee sometimes.

To McGee. To Kate. To Ziva.

Yeah, he grew but early on Tony was insufferable.

 

[Anwar]

But still, I find it logical that they at least accepted to be a part of the crew and that Voyager never was plagued with the bickering which ruined Stargate Universe.

Here's another example, the Walking Dead. After everything Shane did in Seasons 1 and especially 2...were we really supposed to expect that the group would put up with him? No, the show did what logically should happen in that scenario and showed that he couldn't continue. Same deal with if the Maquis and Fleeters couldn't find a way to co-exist.

It confirms my opinion that those in charge of the series couldn't handle the show, they were incapable of coming up with believable scenarios and too arrogant to correct the errors they made.

Really, the problem is how limited the premise really is and how thanks to Network interference they couldn't reinvent it into something more workable partway in.

Not to mention that they also made harry the "whipping boy" of the series which was actually annoying. Just look at The Chute where the whole episode did seem to be made just for having Harry suffer and being mistreated.

That was because the writers didn't like Garrett Wang and hated how he kept messing up anything they wrote for him and never took the job seriously. They couldn't get rid of him but refused to write anything positive for him or promote the character. If he hadn't won that "Most Beautiful People" list he'd have been terminated in Scorpion.

It's the same reason Chakotay was sidelined:

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Look at this, Chakotay should be expressing deep anger or shock or betrayal at Seska's true nature and what does Beltran do? He delivers it with all the passion of a Cigar Store Indian cliche. TERRIBLE. So all those stories of how Chakotay was sidelined? It was because Beltran was terrible in the role and never gave a darn. Writers won't waste time on actors who can't deliver or take their jobs seriously.

 

[at Quark's]

That was because the writers didn't like Garrett Wang and hated how he kept messing up anything they wrote for him and never took the job seriously. They couldn't get rid of him but refused to write anything positive for him or promote the character. If he hadn't won that "Most Beautiful People" list he'd have been terminated in Scorpion.

I've heard about the last part, yes, but is there any proof for the first? (That he didn't take his job seriously and messed up things they wrote for him and the writers 'punishing' him for that)? I mean like someone on the set else than Wang himself acknowledging this?) Asking this as an honest question, since I have heard a rumour about this once or twice, but I've never known the source(s).

Also, even if it is true, it doesn't seem like a smart tactic to hurt your own product simply to 'punish' an actor.

 

[Oddish]

That was because the writers didn't like Garrett Wang and hated how he kept messing up anything they wrote for him and never took the job seriously. They couldn't get rid of him but refused to write anything positive for him or promote the character. If he hadn't won that "Most Beautiful People" list he'd have been terminated in Scorpion.

I certainly believe that there was a vendetta involved. Had it not been so, the writers would have responded to the viewer complaints about Harry's low rank by simply accommodating them.

As it was, by simply clinging to their "someone gotta be duh ensign", they created a character who is held in contempt to this day. And given that both attempts to bring the character back with a successful career behind him have been thwarted, they may still be at it.

TERRIBLE. So all those stories of how Chakotay was sidelined? It was because Beltran was terrible in the role and never gave a darn. Writers won't waste time on actors who can't deliver or take their jobs seriously.

The funny thing is that Beltran was reportedly trying to get himself released by demanding more and more money.

Maybe the best thing they could have done was drop all three superfluous characters and run the series with seven. TNG did fine with that number.

I've heard about the last part, yes, but is there any proof for the first? (That he didn't take his job seriously and messed up things they wrote for him)? I mean like someone on the set else than Wang himself acknowledging this?) Asking this as an honest question, since I have heard a rumour about this once or twice, but I've never known where it comes from.

I've had stories of all sorts, about him, about Lien, about Beltran, about Mulgrew and Ryan... Voyager was clearly not always a happy ship. But separating the fact and the fiction may be difficult.

Also, even if it is true, it doesn't like a good tactic to hurt your own product simply to 'punish' an actor.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Anwar]

I've heard about the last part, yes, but is there any proof for the first? (That he didn't take his job seriously and messed up things they wrote for him and the writers 'punishing' him for that)? I mean like someone on the set else than Wang himself acknowledging this?) Asking this as an honest question, since I have heard a rumour about this once or twice, but I've never known the source(s).

Also, even if it is true, it doesn't seem like a smart tactic to hurt your own product simply to 'punish' an actor.

He accused them of being racist for not letting him direct any episodes...even though he refused to take the directorial training classes all the other Actors who directed did. IE, he refused to do his job or follow the rules.

Maybe it wasn't the smartest move, but VOY was a trouble production due to constant interference and the showrunners never being sure what they wanted to do with the show.

Maybe the best thing they could have done was drop all three superfluous characters and run the series with seven. TNG did fine with that number.

VOY's cast was too big with primaries, IMO the Primary cast should've been Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, the Doctor and Paris.

Torres, Kim, Kes and Neelix should've all been secondaries/recurring characters we didn't need to see all the time.

TOS got by with only 3 main characters (and that was on a good day, plenty of times it was just Kirk and Spock).

I've had stories of all sorts, about him, about Lien, about Beltran, about Mulgrew and Ryan... Voyager was clearly not always a happy ship. But separating the fact and the fiction may be difficult

The show had conceptual problems as well as Cast problems. The main plot didn't have much life to it, the seasons should've had fewer episodes, it shouldn't have been a Federation Starship they were using, etc.

DS9 had proper time and care put into its creation, VOY was a rush job. Berman even admitted the entire idea of the show was problematic

 

[Oddish]

He accused them of being racist for not letting him direct any episodes...even though he refused to take the directorial training classes all the other Actors who directed did. IE, he refused to do

No one is saying Garrett Wang wasn't a pain... I've heard it from enough sources that I believe he probably was, to some extent. Even Garrett himself reportedly admits it... I think that the story of the People Magazine article was actually from him.

However, you can back burner a character without deliberately embarrassing them.

VOY's cast was too big with primaries, IMO the Primary cast should've been Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, the Doctor and Paris.

Torres, Kim, Kes and Neelix should've all been secondaries/recurring characters we didn't need to see all the time.

Such a change, while not saying it's all bad, would qualify as a "major surgery" fix. I created this topic mainly to address easy fixes. A few words of dialogue here, a brief extra scene there, it wouldn't have brought VOY to its initial potential by any means, but it would have improved it noticeably.

The show had conceptual problems as well as Cast problems. The main plot didn't have much life to it, the seasons should've had fewer episodes, it shouldn't have been a Federation Starship they were using, etc.

Unfortunately, this was the pre-streaming days. A season was 26 episodes or thereabouts, and that's all there was to it. So, you could expect to get some mediocre "filler" episodes.

 

[XweAponX]

the seasons should've had fewer episodes, it shouldn't have been a Federation Starship they were using, etc.

nope, 26 episodes was the best. I hate this “10 episodes per season” business. That’s not a show, it’s a miniseries!

 

[Anwar]

nope, 26 episodes was the best. I hate this “10 episodes per season” business. That’s not a show, it’s a miniseries!

Hey, it works for the Brits! And the Walking Dead's best season was only 6 episodes long.

 

[Oddish]

Hey, it works for the Brits! And the Walking Dead's best season was only 6 episodes long.

Six episodes? Now that's a mini-series!

 

[Dee1891]

Leave it alone. I don't see the need to resolve six "Voyager" inconsistencies, if you're not willing to explore similar issues for the other Trek shows.

 

[Farscape One]

As stated before, those threads do exist.

 

[fireproof78]

As stated before, those threads do exist.

And are welcome to explore them further again.

No Trek show is without it's failings.

 

[Farscape One]

Leave it alone. I don't see the need to resolve six "Voyager" inconsistencies, if you're not willing to explore similar issues for the other Trek shows.

I don't know how to link other threads from this site to a post, but there are at least two different threads in other series that deal with this exact topic. The names of those threads are...

"How To Fix TNG Inconsistencies Within 60 Seconds..."

"How To Fix DS9 Inconsistencies Within 60 Seconds..."


I am definitely not the internet sleuth my wife is, but even with my limited searching abilities, I was able to find those two threads without much trouble. (Each have multiple pages, by the way, so it wasn't just a 'post once and done' thread topic.) I'm sure you could find more threads that do the same or similar thing.


Also, upon reading further in those threads, you already posted in one of them (the TNG one), so you clearly already knew we are willing to do the same with the other shows as what's discussed here with VOYAGER.

Your whole 'everyone is ganging up on VOYAGER without holding the other shows to the same standard' argument is really tiresome.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know how to link other threads from this site to a post, but there are at least two different threads in other series that deal with this exact topic. The names of those threads are...

In the lower right hand of a post there is a number. If you click on that you can get a direct link to the latest post, and then use the link button on the editor to link it.

 

[Farscape One]

In the lower right hand of a post there is a number. If you click on that you can get a direct link to the latest post, and then use the link button on the editor to link it.

I don't see a number anywhere on any of the posts. Unless I am actually quoting a post... then the quoted post has the person's screen name and what appears to be the post number. But it just quotes the post, it doesn't link it like I have seen how letters in a post turn blue, indicating that it is a link.

Maybe this is because I use my phone while on here? I'm never on my work laptop when logged on here.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't see a number anywhere on any of the posts. Unless I am actually quoting a post... then the quoted post has the person's screen name and what appears to be the post number. But it just quotes the post, it doesn't link it like I have seen how letters in a post turn blue, indicating that it is a link.

Maybe this is because I use my phone while on here? I'm never on my work laptop when logged on here.

Tested it on my phone. Yeah, you're right. Doesn't pop on the phone. That's annoying.

 

[Farscape One]

Tested it on my phone. Yeah, you're right. Doesn't pop on the phone. That's annoying.

It's okay, I can live with it. Just takes longer to do what I am attempting. Appreciate you trying, though.

 

[fireproof78]

It's okay, I can live with it. Just takes longer to do what I am attempting. Appreciate you trying, though.

Just remembered. Pain in the ass but on a phone you usually have an option in a browser to "see desktop site" which shows what the site would look like on a computer instead of the mobile version.

 

[Farscape One]

Just remembered. Pain in the ass but on a phone you usually have an option in a browser to "see desktop site" which shows what the site would look like on a computer instead of the mobile version.

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot (to be honest, I am an idiot when it comes to computers), I have no idea what you are talking about. I thought this is the actual TrekBBS.