The Voth did refer to themselves as a Saurian species, while calling humans and other humanoids mammalian species. A lot of them did seem to say it with a big level of disgust.
How to resolve 6 Voyager Inconsistencies in 85 seconds
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The Voth did refer to themselves as a Saurian species, while calling humans and other humanoids mammalian species. A lot of them did seem to say it with a big level of disgust.
Then they should have stuck with their basic premise. Don't worry about the audience.
Indeed. Because conflict is a part of the story. It's ridiculous to assume there wouldn't be some sort of push back by at least some frustrated crewmembers, Maquis resenting Janeway, or just tired. My wife and I fight over stupid shit and we've been together for 15 years not in a survival situation. But Janeway? People have opportunity to jump ship multiple times and never do? Doesn't track at all.
DS9 might have gotten more leeway as it was the odd one out. VOY was expected to take over as the flagship show from TNG. So that may have resulted in tougher pressure from the higher ups. I read the changes were simply forced on them with not much room for discussion.
that’s the sense I got from Susan Bay’s comment. I still haven’t watched that scene yet.
remember: Yoy was an official NETWORK Trek show, the first one since TOS, and as such, subject to psychophants, beancounters and Pencil Pushers. And other outsiders who interfered with the show. Second-guessing the writers and bullpens careful plans for the show, inserting nepotism, how many other bad things come from a network environment?
even the “Dramatically Different” UPN was no longer dramatic after one year of operation. All the great shows they had, Marker, LEGEND- which co starred John Delancy along with McGuyver/Jack Oniell (2 L’s)- Deadly Games, there were a bunch of em… all CANCELLED after one season and replaced with Moesha?!?!?
a network that would cancel every dramatically different show and replace em with BAD comedies would be capable of severe interference with its so called flagship show…
UPN's comedies... ugh, there were so many bad ones. PIG STY, PLATYPUS MAN, SHASTA MCNASTY, and (shudders) HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE. Terrible, terrible shows.
And then they get something good like DEADLY GAMES or NOWHERE MAN and cancel it.
I have argued in the past that one of the reasons DS9 was so great was because it was basically left alone. At the time it was airing, I felt it was unfair that they never got their lone moment in the sun (except for the first part of season 3, they were running concurrently with another show their entire run), but years later, I found I was glad they didn't. It meant less interference.
And then they get something good like DEADLY GAMES or NOWHERE MAN and cancel it.
I have argued in the past that one of the reasons DS9 was so great was because it was basically left alone. At the time it was airing, I felt it was unfair that they never got their lone moment in the sun (except for the first part of season 3, they were running concurrently with another show their entire run), but years later, I found I was glad they didn't. It meant less interference.
I can agree with that. However, it could have been done. What if Voyager had managed to go to the gamma Quadrant and end up in The Dominion's backyard. That could have been something!
Instead of flogging that dead Borg horse over and over.
See my previous post about Voyager arriving to the Gamma Quadrant.
Or they could have been stuck for a while at "The 37's planet". At least the writers did know what to do as long as they had the Kazon to write about. not to mention that Culluh and Seska were a great couple!
Maybe because the story didn't lead anywhere. They should have used The Voth instead. They were more interesting.
Which I can't understand. I mean, a whole universe with new species and new ideas for interesting stories and they couldn't handle that.
Huh! A long time since I watched that episode so I hardly remember it. However,I remember that it was a very weird story. I didn't think it was particularily good. too confusing.
Something I don't understand either. As I see it, it was logical that the Starfleet crew and the Maquis crew did cooperate to get home because it was the only way to achieve that goal. However, it happened too quickly, at least Torres could have been more against it for at least two-three episodes.
But I always advice those who wanted more internal squabble to watch Stargate Universe and be bored to death, or at least to fall asleep during the constand bickering and squabbling during whole episodes of that series. Especially the female leader for the "Civil Faction" was downright horrible. If I had been captain on that ship instead of the spineless excuse for a captain which they had, I wouuld have thrown her out of the neares airlock.
Despite my criticism of Berman, Braga and the gang, I'm downright happy that they never let Voyager be ruined by constant internal squabble.
Personally I found it logical in a way.
Those maquis weren't so stupid that they didn't realize that Voyager was their only way home and since Chakotay did have their respect, they decided to follow him.
No matter how critical I might have been to all Starfleet after evereything that happened to the Maquis and despite my sometimes obnoxious rebel attitude which I have showed up from time to time on this forum
, I would have realized the options and done the same thing.So true!
Being dressed as a sofa was a part of his charm!
Personally, I don't think that Neelix was that under-used. There were some good episodes with him as the main character, like Jetrel and Fair Trade.
The character also had a depth which no one could see in is first appearances of the series and which was revealed in Jetrel with all his tragic background story.
However, I have to agree on Kim, especially compared to what we can see in some of the Voyager books where he's actually doing something.
So trueUnfortunately, that's the truth.
I think that the constant criticizm of Chakotay is unfair.
He did have a lot of potential and I found him quite good in the first three seasons. Unfortunately he was a victim of the incompetence of the writers who totally wasted the character. No wonder that Robert Beltran became frustrated and angry.
I do find it weird that they did have all those characters with so much potential and who do they decide to focus on? The captain, the newcomer and the character with the least potential to start with.
No, Spot ate it.
"Would have realized " indicates a gradual understanding and growth. Which is all I want. Not constant rebelliousness but not immediate concession either.No matter how critical I might have been to all Starfleet after evereything that happened to the Maquis and despite my sometimes obnoxious rebel attitude which I have showed up from time to time on this forum
There's a broad spectrum between "refusing to remain on Voyager period" and "eating out of Janeway's hand from day one". The Maquis's renegade nature could have been way better used.
Torres shouldn't have been made Chief Engineer until the second season.
They couldn't even ration out 38 torpedoes or understand that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant. What does that tell you?
Harry is more a plot convenience than a character. Instead of paying a couple of redshirt extras more and having them speak, just have Harry do it. If you need absolute competence, he provides it. If you need a guy to screw up, he'll do that for you. He can be adept crew or clueless noob, regardless of time or season... he can save the ship multiple times, and still be "poor dumb Harry Kim". And our one chance to see him in a competently run show may just have been canceled by Paramount Plus.
NOWHERE MAN! I was trying to remember the title of that show, that was such a great show and it had two great leads, Bruce Greenwood and Meaghan Gallagher- Who was in episodes of deep space 9 and Voyager.
Deadly games was kind of an anthology show based upon “gadgets that went bad“, Worf AND Data were guest stars on that, they both played bad guys, which was really great to see. Actually, Brent did a good job playing another evil Soong in Picard S2.
I don’t remember any of the so-called comedies that you listed, though, all I remember was Moesha bfhahaha!
I can agree on that. And we did have characters like dalby and Hogan who did show some resistance to the whole situation by questioning some decisions which were made.
Personally I think that the Maquis should have been a "special force" on the ship with Chakotay in charge. Just like the Bajoran security force was on Deep Space Nine and not a Starfleet crew. It would have given the Maquis a little more independence.
But still, I find it logical that they at least accepted to be a part of the crew and that Voyager never was plagued with the bickering which ruined Stargate Universe.
Well, at least she shouldn't have been made Chief Engineer already in episode 2, maybe in episode 5 or 6.
Making her Chief Engineer in season 2 would have made that they had to kill off Carey who probably would have been Chief Engineer in season 1 and that would have been a waste. I'm still annoyed over the fact that they did kill him off later on and I refuse to accept it (her urvived in the Lynxverse). he was agood character.
It confirms my opinion that those in charge of the series couldn't handle the show, they were incapable of coming up with believable scenarios and too arrogant to correct the errors they made.
Not to mention that they also made harry the "whipping boy" of the series which was actually annoying. Just look at The Chute where the whole episode did seem to be made just for having Harry suffer and being mistreated.
Compare that to Timothy McGee of NCIS who started like a sort of "whipping boy" in that series, clumsy and making mistakes and often being somewhat ridiculed by his colleague Tony DiNozzo (those two actually reminds me of Harry Kim and Tom Paris when it comes to their manners) but actually developed during the series and became a good and reliable field agent. So there would have been hope for Harry to develope with better writers.
Belisario written Star Trek? Yes please.
Yes, why not?
Even though NCIS has declined in recent years. But that's more because of too many good characters gone than lack of good stories.
Meh. Declined, my rear end. I still enjoy it far more than Voyager.
Yes, I'd welcome such a series.
I must admit that I quit watching NCIS after Gibbs left. It just wasn't the same anymore. Too many good characters gone, too many bad characters replaced them.
But I really enjoy the old episodes from seasons 1-16.
As I still enjoy seasons 1, 2 and 3 of Voyager despite some flaws.
Mcgee makes it for me, despite Gibbs' absence. I don't get stuck on one character as I used too with shows. Had to learn that with some shows.
Good characters are important for me. If a character I like leaves, then it might be enough for me to quit watching, especially if the characters is dumped for dubious reasons.
There are three series which I have watched in which I've taken an immediate liking for all the main characters already from the first episode. Those series are Voyager, NCIS and CSI New York.
For me, CSI New York could handle losing a few characters by replacing them with good ones so I followed it to the end. Voyager couldn't and I don't have to go into where and when I lost interest.
NCIS lost a lot of what I liked when Ziva, Tony and Abby left in a couple of years, however it was still good to watch. But when Jack, Ellie and Gibbs left and were replaced by characters I find dull, that ruined it for me.
I actually would have Carey start as chief engineer... and then had him and the problem Maquis members jump ship on Planet 37's. By then, a year has passed, and B'Elanna has calmed down a bit, and takes over the engine room.
And so determined to carry out their vendetta against Garrett Wang, they kept at it even when the viewers complained.
That could have been a great "growth" episode for Harry... if they had let his character develop, instead of dancing on the Reset Button like they did.
Except Tom Paris wasn't nearly as much of a prick as DiNozzo was.
I'm WAY behind on NCIS, probably because I can't watch it on my TV.
Fair though I keep watching. Few shows get ruined for me by characters changing. Shows are ruined by repetitive stories and lack of consequences.
Hmmm....maybe. But then we would have lost that scene when Janeway and Chakotay enters the Shuttle bay to say goodbye to those who had decided to leave the ship and there's no one there.
That was actually one of Voyager's most touching moments.Even mean, old me almost had tears in my eyes too.
IIn fact, I can understand if the crew rather stayed on a ship with a chance to get home than settling on a nice but still alien planet in the middle of Kazon and Vidiian space.
Did that vendetta start already in the early seasons of the series? What had poor Garret done to wake the fury of the "gods"?
Im not so sure that the character would grow by being beaten up the way he did in that episode.
Ah, come on now! Tony DiNozzo is funny! Number 2 on my NCIS favorite list after Gibbs.
As for NCIS, be happy if you have missed the "after Gibbs-seasons". The series isn't good anymore. Too many good characters gone, too many weak characters have replaced them.
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