Could this be how Friendship One travelled 30,000 ly's?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

With due respect, that doesn't make any sense and it contradicts what we saw on-screen.

Two things from the episode: (1) Starfleet loses contact ~2247; (2) by 2377 Voyager is already in the neighbourhood and follows the probe’s recorded trajectory, with Kim suggesting a small “skip ahead” for local anomalies.

If the big jumps happened after 2247 as you suggest, Starfleet wouldn’t know where to send Voyager and the recorded trajectory wouldn’t point anywhere useful. If the big jumps happened before 2247, you wouldn’t have 180 years of comms because as we know, such jumps mess with navigation, communications, and it would be impossible for SF to track the probe consistently that way.

That’s why the anomaly-carousel model contradicts the episode. The boring explanation - routine refuels → two era upgrades → final drone pack—puts the probe ~29.7 kly out before 2247 and matches the search pattern on screen.

You're right, StarFleet didn't know exactly where the probe was, just a very rough patch of space, that's why Voyager had to go find out and perform a search grid to use figure out where the probe really ended up.
It took over 5 days of searching and Harry Kim found the probe in Grid 310.

But the issue is we have no way of knowing how it relayed signals for 180 years because that detail was never divulged.

We know that during the NX-era, StarFleet dropped SubSpace Relays as they got further into the frontier.

For Friendship 1, we don't know how many small SubSpace Relays Friendship 1 was packing, especially with the modern availability of tiny Cube Sats & Nuclear Batteries to keep those sucker powerd for a very long time.

Let's do some simple napkin math. Let's say you need a SubSpace Relay Satellites every 100 light years to boost the SubSpace COMMs signals of that era.

30,000 ly / 100 ly = 300.
So Friendship 1 would need enough room to carry at least 300 of those SubSpace Relay Satellites

And we know that StarLink itself packs tons of little Satellites that are slightly larger than the Cube Sats that we talk about.

Imagine packing your Probe's Cargo Hold with SubSpace Relay Cube Sats to relay signals back to home, then that makes communication plausible, even with degradation of the SubSpace Radio Signal over time & distance.

 

[knightgrace]

Another thing.

Because of the high energy power supply, and the concept that Friendship one is unmanned, radiation protection doesn't have to extensive.

Furthermore to avoid problems with electronic circuitry...
A fluidic computer could be used.

A fluidic computer uses pressure waves to attain computation requirements, in other words sound. But immune to radiation effects. Transmission medium? Hydraulic fluid. Very high pressure. The only real requirement is that the computer be Turing Complete.

In other words, a general purpose computer.

The hints that I posted about are the times mentioned for the Enterprise in the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before' .. where, in dialog Kirk says that oreships of pickup the cracked Lithium once every twenty years. And in the Pilot episode 'The Cage' from navigator Jose Tyler. About the Time Barrier being broken.

Further reference point the Enterprise went to Talos IV at Time Warp Factor seven.

 

[DSG2k]

Gents, Friendship One and the SS Valiant both run so contrary to the warp development timeline of Star Trek: Enterprise that it is going to be very hard to reconcile. It's like developing the steam engine and immediately launching a ship with one for an around-the-world voyage without any maintenance personnel aboard, and having it outpace ships from a century later, to boot.

The Valiant can at least be presumed to have been carried thousands of light-years by the "storm" that "swept" her, but Friendship One is a story that should've been set squarely in the Alpha Quadrant, or been a launch by a Federation or allied species that had warp drive centuries before humanity.

(See also the problem of assorted sublight craft from Earth that crossed many-light-year distances, which would seem to include Pioneer 10 (1972), Voyager 6 (19??), the cryonics solar orbiter (1990s), possibly the Botany Bay (1996), the Nomad probe (circa 2018), Ares IV (2032), and the Charybdis (2037). I'm not even certain that is a complete list.)

To make the required speed you have to either go with Deks's periodic upgrades (which is a silly idea on par with adding warp drive to the Voyager probes and New Horizons), anomalous space something-or-other, or a one-off bit of speed boost of the vehicle from the Vulcans or another species (albeit still utilizing Earth-style engines).

------------------

As a side note, all this reminds me of was the good old days when ships didn't have subspace broadcast capability until sometime after the 2160s, per "A Piece of the Action", where the Horizon sent its report by conventional radio because they "didn't have subspace communication in those days." (Even the Columbia from 2236 had a fragile system, at best.)

It was a braver fleet, then, going out into the stars with only a lightspeed message in a bottle to report back home if you didn't . . . in a universe not only big and empty but also featuring ion storms and the like.

While Star Trek: Enterprise initially was going to halfway respect that with subspace amplifiers and only being able to transmit on subspace while at warp, plot needs basically meant they retconned subspace radio into a normal bit of 2150s kit. This either means that Horizon 176 had a broken radio (which doesn't fit Kirk's statement), or was beyond her own amplifiers (which doesn't quite fit but could be overlooked), or that the NX class was extra special because it had a subspace radio on board, whereas the Daedalus Class couldn't support one. I rather like the latter idea in some ways.

 

[knightgrace]

Actually Khan, was very good at writing his own speeches, like any politician, and so the SS Botney Bay believed him...

And so carried Khan et el beyond reason.

 

[publiusr]

If a Bajoran sail craft can stumble into warp…

 

[Deks]

If a Bajoran sail craft can stumble into warp…

The whole premise of that episode was a bit ridiculous when you think about it. The solar sail ship didn't even have a S.I.F. from what we do know of it, and, even if it had, it basically would have had to travel at least several LY's in a very short time span (velocities that would have either severely damaged or TORN APART 24th century ships). This tachyon anomaly allowed it to cover a few LY's at most since Bajor and Cardassia seem to be very close in interstellar terms - and the ship was DAMAGED in the process - the only saving grace was that Sisko and Jake were aboard to TRY and affect some repairs (internally at least) - Friendship Probe was unmanned and autonomous.

That said, NOTHING of the kind was mentioned for Friendship One... in fact, if something like that happened, it would have occurred in 2247 when SF lost contact with the probe - and by that point it was already near its end point about 30,000 LY's away from Earth.

That still requires of the probe to cross about 29,000 Ly's in a span of 180 years, which would be quite frankly IMPOSSIBLE if it encountered a confluence of such anomalies - which would have wrecked navigation, comms and sensors (especially for 2067 era tech probe) - simply speaking, SF would have lost contact with the probe LONG before a local anomaly (the one Kim mentioned in that area of space) blew it off course.

Tracking an unmanned probe through a series of high speed anomalies which would have to stack up repeatedly over 180 years with its tech of the time? Nope - its absurd (even for Trek).

My explanation doesn't rely on weird anomalies - just uneventful refuelling for the first 84 years, followed by 2 upgrades and final drone packet update (that would likely be beyond furthest reaches of UFP space in 2203) - and it keeps the probe AHEAD of Starfleet for the most part.
What's the issue in considering my explanation as a viable one?

 

[DSG2k]

What's the issue in considering my explanation as a viable one?

The issue is that it's kinda silly.

Your argument is that they carried enough stuff to basically rebuild the propulsion system of the probe not once but twice, possibly along with constant refueling runs . . . all while the culture is changing vis-à-vis the Prime Directive.

More generally, if we got the drive system from The Expanse (or impulse drive or whatever) tomorrow, we're not going to run out and install it on Pioneer 10 and New Horizons. We would bring those home for display and just launch new probes.

In the Trek case, rather than carry new nacelles and reactor tech and rebuild the whole thing in the inconvenient environment of space, we'd just carry a new thing and launch it from there.

But hey, I get it. We're all stuck in a bad situation because of the bad tech writing involved. A story like this could have been done on TNG or DS9 relatively well, but just didn't fit as an Earth probe launched ten seconds after first contact landing 30,000 light-years away after a few days. It's just bad.

However, what you have proposed is simply not the best solution. It's  A solution, but you simply aren't going to find universal acquiescence to it. You have proposed it, you have defended it, and that is all that can be done. Good work.

 

[Deks]

The issue is that it's kinda silly.

Your argument is that they carried enough stuff to basically rebuild the propulsion system of the probe not once but twice, possibly along with constant refueling runs . . . all while the culture is changing vis-à-vis the Prime Directive.

You realize of course that a probe is NOT a starship effectively? Aka, it means a more compact system that's arguably easier to service and upgrade.
And it wouldn't surprise me if the NX-01 intercepted the probe at some point to do so.
A lot of Warp engine upgrades can be done without dedicated hw, some can be done with modifications to existing systems.

More generally, if we got the drive system from The Expanse (or impulse drive or whatever) tomorrow, we're not going to run out and install it on Pioneer 10 and New Horizons. We would bring those home for display and just launch new probes.

The drive from the Expanse is a ridiculous comparison.
Its an alien propulsion system that wasn't tested at all, whereas Warp 5 is a human/Earth invention that was tested and verified.

Additionally, Friendship One was launched as a proverbial symbol of early Humanity's efforts into deep space and to reach out. Its not impossible to see that SF would want to continue pushing Friendship One that was already out there to preserve that dream.

In the Trek case, rather than carry new nacelles and reactor tech and rebuild the whole thing in the inconvenient environment of space, we'd just carry a new thing and launch it from there.

And again, who said anything about NEW nacelles? Most Trek and SF ships are designed to last a LONG time and can be upgraded internally.
What's more plausible? That the crew of the NX-01 replaced whole nacelles or that they simply modified/change internal circuitry and HW to upgrade it?
Likely the overall design and hull of the probe was left intact... what was upgraded was everything else internally.

But hey, I get it. We're all stuck in a bad situation because of the bad tech writing involved. A story like this could have been done on TNG or DS9 relatively well, but just didn't fit as an Earth probe launched ten seconds after first contact landing 30,000 light-years away after a few days. It's just bad.

However, what you have proposed is simply not the best solution. It's  A solution, but you simply aren't going to find universal acquiescence to it. You have proposed it, you have defended it, and that is all that can be done. Good work.

Thank you... but I would like to say that trying to explain the probe getting to about 30,000 LY's with 2067 era tech is eminently FAR more difficult and arguably requires (even within Trek) ridiculous amount of implausibility because it relies on a series of rare, unpredictable and extremely dangerous anomalies lining up so perfectly that would sooner disable, heavily damage or destroy the probe (or at the very least prevent SF from TRACKING it in the first place, therefore losing contact VERY early on) vs the explanation that Earth/SF kept track of the probe and serviced/upgraded it as described and maintained long range contact until they finally lost contact in 2247?

 

[knightgrace]

No, anomalies permitted.

Reality is never that convenient.

I saw an estimate some time ago...

That to achieve basic sublight starflight, one would have launch at 60 percent to 60 percent of light speed... Any slower and new systems could catch up and pass, thus defeating the original purpose.

Then there is another problem...

Sorry, but there is.

In the episode 'The Changeling', there is the suggestion that speeds beyond warp factor two, by various interstellar cultures are rare. Nomad's energy bolts are stated to be traveling at multi warp speed, which is refined down to warp factor fifteen...

 

[Ithekro]

Remember that whatever Nomad shows off in the 2260s is definitely not what it launched with in the 21st century. Much like the Voyager 6 probe would not be able to fire plasma bolts that can digitize starships or disable all Earth defenses like they were nothing. Or travel at Warp 7. While V'Ger got a gigantic space ship to help it along, Nomad merged with some other kind of probe and amassed knowledge for centuries.