How to resolve 6 Voyager Inconsistencies in 85 seconds

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Oddish, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    HOW TO FIX HALF A DOZEN VOYAGER INCONSISTENCIES IN 85 SECONDS OF DIALOGUE

    It should be noted that this topic is limited strictly to "band-aid" solutions, or inconsistencies that could be easily and painlessly cleared up. It doesn't solve all of Voyager's issues, or it's worst. Note also that I do enjoy Voyager. I consider it a good show despite its weaknesses. I am simply frustrated that the writers didn't address issues that could have been dealt with so easily.

    Dialogue in plaintext is from the script, as seen at Chakoteya.net. Dialogue in boldface was written by me. It took me 84.9 seconds to rattle it all off, in my best approximation of the actors' cadences. Your results may vary.

    Glitch #1: More than 38 Torpedoes

    It's stated early on in the series that Voyager has only 38 photon torpedoes, and "no way to replace them once they're gone". It scrupulously respects this limit for the first four seasons, firing only about 35 photons in the first four seasons. However, they completely ignore said limit in the last three seasons, and with no explanation whatsoever. By the end of the series, about 90 torpedoes have been fired.


    Glitch #2: Unlimited Shuttles

    Being a shuttlecraft on Voyager is like wearing a red shirt in the Original Series; the things regularly crash on planets or explode or disappear into wormholes... and yet Voyager somehow always seems to have more of them. Watching shuttles leave the ship is like watching clowns in a circus, climbing out of a mini-car. To top it all off, in "Alice", Chakotay tells Tom that Voyager has a "full complement of shuttles" onboard... despite the fact that she's lost more than a dozen at that point!


    Glitch #3: Harry's Rank

    Harry Kim was a model officer who had a reputation for not breaking the rules, and who (in Janeway's words) had exceeded all of her expectations. Given Janeway's willingness to dole out field commissions and promotions, he should have been sporting JG's pips in three years at most, and full LT's insignia in six. Keeping him at ensign is not Voyager's most hated decision, but it seems to be among the most universally hated: nearly all commentators have denounced it, and expressed contempt for the writers responsible. And, there is no rational argument defending it.


    EPISODE: "Night"


    CHAKOTAY (continuing log): "We're using power cells to stockpile deuterium. The new industrial replicator that we were able to trade for is functioning well. I have directed Lieutenant Torres to assign top priority to replenishing our nearly depleted supply of torpedoes. I have also assigned Harry Kim to overseeing the new shuttle construction team. This additional responsibility has come with a long overdue promotion."


    [Briefing room]


    TORRES: "This won't be much of a briefing. There's nothing new to report."


    CHAKOTAY: "Humor me."


    TORRES: "All right, let's see. Warp core's at peak efficiency, just like last week, and the week before that. And my engineering staff is going stir crazy."


    CHAKOTAY: "Thanks. Lieutenant Kim?"



    KIM: "We have two Class II shuttles ready for service now, and a third should be finished by the end of the week."



    CHAKOTAY: "Outstanding work." (to Tuvok) "Anything new on sensors?"




    Glitch #4: Voyager is now a Shipyard


    At the start of the journey, it was a problem for Captain Janeway to even ask the replicators to produce a cup of joe. That is to say, it can't produce eight ounces of an organic suspension that is 94% water (which the ship presumably recycles rather than creates). But by the start of Year 5, the crew was able to build a 21-meter long shuttlecraft capable of reaching warp 7, pretty much from scratch. A ship, I might add, vastly superior to what the shipyards at Starfleet itself typically produced. Imagine if your high school, which previously couldn't even put out a decent school lunch in your freshman year, suddenly started knocking out brand-new school buses in its automotive shop by the time you graduated... and it did this with a zero-dollar budget increase.


    EPISODE: "Extreme Risk"


    JANEWAY: "I'm impressed, but how quickly can it be built?"


    PARIS: "The new industrial replicator's already been preset to produce the necessary alloys, and programming the design elements should be a piece of cake. If we worked around the clock..."




    Glitch #5: Voyager's Top Speed


    It's stated that Voyager has a top "sustainable" speed of Warp 9.975, or about 5000c. If she could sustain such a velocity, her trip home would only require 14 years, instead of the stated 70. A vehicle's cruising speed should not be so small a percentage of its maximum... if a typical car can hit 120 mph, it should be able to cruise at around 60 indefinitely, as long as it refuels on the fly. Strangely, however, the ship is often seen dawdling along at warp 6, which is 392c. At this speed, she would need 175 years to cover 70,000 light years.


    EPISODE: "Caretaker"


    STADI: "That's our ship. That's Voyager." (show ship) "Interpid class. Fifteen decks, crew complement of 141."


    PARIS: "Those look like retractable nacelles."



    STADI: "That's right. With its variable geometry warp field, Voyager has a standard cruise velocity of warp eight. Most ships only cruise at warp six."



    PARIS: "Top speed?"



    STADI: "It can sustain warp 9.75 for up to twelve hours. And bioneural circuitry."




    Glitch #6: Voyager's Self-Destruct


    We see in several episodes that it's possible for any person, including Captain Janeway, to fall under alien influence and become mentally unstable ("Scientific Method" is an example). Ergo, it's highly dangerous for one person to be able to set off the ship's self-destruct sequence (destroying billions of credits worth of Starfleet property and possibly over a hundred crew) alone. All other ships require at least two people to authorize the sequence, and some even require three.


    Because Tuvok is dead in "Deadlock" and Chakotay is gone in "Dreadnought", I have decided to allow either of Janeway's main subordinates to provide the second authorization. No changes were deemed necessary for aborting the sequence. It's a reasonable assumption that while blasting Voyager to space dust should require two command-level people to agree, saving it should only need one.



    EPISODE: Deadlock


    JANEWAY: "Harry, you have five minutes. Get the baby." (Harry tries to protest) "Move it, ensign! That's an order!" (Harry scampers) "Computer, initiate the self-destruct sequence. Authorization Janeway pi one one zero."


    COMPUTER: "Acknowledged. Additional command authorization required."



    CHAKOTAY: "Computer, confirm self-destruct. Authorization Chakotay gamma three four seven."



    COMPUTER: "Self-destruct sequence initiated. Indicate time interval."


    JANEWAY: "Set for five minutes and mute voice warnings. Enable."



    EPISODE: Dreadnought


    JANEWAY: "Computer, initiate the self-destruct sequence. Authorization Janeway pi one one zero."


    COMPUTER: "Acknowledged. Additional command authorization required."



    TUVOK: "Computer, confirm self-destruct. Authorization Tuvok zeta six four two."



    COMPUTER: "Self-destruct sequence initiated. Indicate time interval."


    JANEWAY: "Set for twenty minutes. Enable."


    Any thoughts from you on what I might have missed?
     
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  2. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neelix coming back from the dead with Borg nanoprobes. Such a trick was never used again.

    They should have either used something much harder to bring back (Seven's nanoprobes have been used for MANY things) or make that nanoprobe trick only useful for Talaxian physiology because something unique about them allows it work.


    I can't believe I'm going to say this, but there is ONE good thing about "FURY"...

    It explained why Wildman needed almost a year and a half to give birth. It took the writers 5 years to address that elephant in the corridor, and they just had to put it in a terrible episode. Go figure.
     
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  3. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll give it a try. ;)

    SEVEN: "How long?"
    CHAKOTAY: "It's been eighteen hours."
    SEVEN: "Then it's not too late to reactivate him."
    PARIS: "What are you saying? You can bring Neelix back to life?"
    SEVEN: "That's precisely what I'm saying. He is Talaxian. Their neuroelectric pathways degrade at a far slower rate than most species. We have successfully reactivated Talaxian drones that have been dead for up to 73 hours."
    CHAKOTAY: "Neelix wasn't a Borg drone."
    SEVEN: "We will adapt."
     
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  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good suggestions to fix a lot of the glitches (which were the results of extreme sloppy writing, I must add).

    As for Glitch #1: More than 38 Torpedoes and Glitch #2: Unlimited Shuttles
    there is actually a definite solution for those glitches:


    The Torpedo and Shuttle Building Team!

    This would be the perfect explanation to why Voyager always had shuttles available despite losing them in episode after episode. It would also explain where characters like Dalby, Henley, Chell, Gerron, Vorik, Carey, Rollins and Samantha Wildman were during most of the time in the Delta Quadrant. They were building new shuttles and torpedoes both day and night!

    Read this quote from Captain Janeway's log:

    Stardate 48942.07 (Friday 10 December 2371)

    The latest events have put us in a difficult situation since we have wasted a lot of torpedoes and damaged a shuttle. Therefore I have asked Commander Chakotay, Liutenant Tuvok and Lieutenant Torres to come to my ready room to discuss an idea I have.

    "You all know what has happened" said Janeway. "After the recent adventure with the Furies (Voyager book "The Final Fury" which took place between the episodes "Elogium" and "Twisted"), we have lost a shuttle. We have also wasted too many torpedoes. If we keep on wasting our torpedoes in the same way, we will be out of them soon. Considering our long journey and the risk of running into hostile aliens, we need both shuttles and torpedoes. Therefore I want to discuss this idea I have."

    "What would that be?" Chakotay asked.

    "I suggest that we set up a special workforce on the ship" Janeway said. "The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team". "Some really skilled people who can have as their priority to build shuttles and torpedoes when it's necessary. If we do so, we will have a chance to avoid being without those in a critical situation."

    "That sounds like a good idea", Chakotay said.

    "Indeed. And a very logical idea too considering our need for such items" Tuvok said.

    "Exactly my thoughts too", said Janeway. "B'Elanna, do you have any people to spare?"

    "Well, I think that Dalby, Henley, Gerron and Chell would be perfect for the job. And I would also like to have Lt. Carey in charge of the team. He's the right person for that. If necessary, I can give a helping hand too in a crisis. But I must point out that I need these people in Engineering too and that they would only work with shuttles and torpedoes when necessary."

    "I agree", Janeway said. "I would also suggest that we find some other people too among the crew who can assist with shuttle and torpedo building when necessary". Janeway touched her combadge: "Mr Carey, can you come to my ready room immediately!"


    And so The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team was born. From the beginning, it was Lt.Carey, Dalby, Henley, Gerron and Chell. Later on Rollins, Vorik, Samantha Wildman and The Borg baby were added to the team. In fact, those people are the true heroes on Voyager. Without their hard work, Voyager's mission would have been almost impossible.


    The absolute worst with your statement here is that it is correct! :eek:

    I've been trying for hours now to come up with something which would prove your statement about "ONE good thing" wrong in order to once more totally trash the worst and most insulting episode ever made since the first TV-series was created. But I can't! :shrug:

    So the only thing I can do is to accept that you are right. But at the same time I must admit that I could have lived without that late explanation from the writers. Well, at least we can agree that the episode was terrible. :techman:
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The S and T Building Team would also work as an explanation, though it would not resolve Glitches 3 and 4. I might have two teams, one for shuttles (headed by Carey) and the other for torpedoes (I assume one of those guys you listed was a security officer). Voyager has plenty of nameless redshirts to fill out said teams, and maybe create a third to run on a giant treadmill on Deck 15 to generate replicator power.

    Since the Borg baby is a little young to be running around Shuttle Bay 2 with a plasma welder, I suggest an alternative resolution, just a little tweak to "Collective"...

    JANEWAY: "Captain's log, supplemental. Harry's recovering in Sickbay, and the rest of the away team is safe and sound. Seven was able to identify the Borg infant's species, and we were able to locate one of their ships and return her to her people. As for the older drones, the Doctor's removed most of their implants, leaving us with four very troubled children."
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can only agree about the Borg baby. Another example of bad writing, the couldn't even come up with an explanation what happened to the poor baby. It just vanished.

    Which is the reason why I sometimes mention the Borg baby as a member of this team. :)

    To be perfectly honest, I consider The Shuttle And Torpedo Building Team as one of the best ideas I've come up with. First of all it explains why Voyager never ran out of shuttles and torpedoes and it also gives a plausible explanation where characters like Carey, Dalby, Chell and some other good characters ended up.

    In fact, characters like carey, dalby, henley, Chell and Gerron were good and should have had more screen time. In that aspect I wish that Voyager should have been like DS9 which have a lot of great recurring characters.
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Have you heard about Kate Mulgrew's "explanation" of how the Borg baby disappeared?

    I think I might have gotten it from you, actually. I just added in the industrial replicator myself. So, thanks. ;)

    You are SO right. It's almost like DS9 got the A-list of writers and VOY had to settle for the less proficient ones.

    I think they should have developed one of the characters, Carey maybe, turned them into someone we knew, liked, were familiar with... then had them lead the small group who defected in "The 37's". Having everyone stay just gave Janeway a "cult leader" vibe.
     
  8. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I haven't.
    I really hope that it had nothing to do with Neelix's cooking! :lol:





    I think that Carey is a too good character to be dumped of. In fact, it really annoyed me when I found out that he had been killed off. They could have gone for som not so prominent one like Jarvin or Baxter.

    I must also state that I liked that scene in The 37's when Janeway and Chakotay entered the cargo bay to say goodbye to those who had decided to stay on the planet and no one was there. Definitely one of Voyager's most touching scenes and I think it show more of the unity and good atmosphere among the crewmembers than having Janeway look as a cult leader.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's exactly what it had to do with, I'm sorry to say. :crazy:
     
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  10. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :eek:
    Ooooops!
    :guffaw:
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It involved a delicious orange sauce.

    Other sources say that Brandon Braga was the one who said that, then amended that the baby was returned to it's people offscreen. Which could have been handled with a few seconds of dialogue.
     
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  12. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So typical of Braga, the Supreme Master of sloppy writing.
     
  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Braga's later writings, yes. But his earlier stuff was really good.

    "Cause And Effect"
    "Frame of Mind"
    "Timescape"
    "Phantasms"
    "Parallels"
    "PROJECTIONS"

    "DEADLOCK"
    "PREY"

    Those are a lot of his solo credits, and they are really good ones. A lot of his co-written ones are good, too.

    "All Good Things..."
    STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT
    "FUTURE'S END", both
    "YEAR OF HELL", both
    "TIMELESS"
    "DRAGON'S TEETH"
    "MEMORIAL"
    "BROKEN BOW" (take out the Temporal Cold War, and I just might call it the best pilot of the franchise.)

    While he had a lot of faults, I think it's fair to say he's a better writer than a showrunner. At the very least, he proved to be one of the most imaginative of the franchise.
     
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  14. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sloppy and good can actually coexist, and in this instance, they do. Kind of like a beautifully sculpted, fertilized, and manicured lawn with several long unmowed streaks in it, that a couple minutes with the lawnmower could have erased.

    It's not that Voyager had particularly bad stories/episodes. It's just that there were inconsistencies that could have been easily addressed. A mere minute and 25 seconds of dialogue could have fixed so many stupid gaffes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  15. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're absolutely right!

    I have never denied the fact that Braga made a lot of good stories and I won't hesitate to give him credit for that.

    I have to give Braga credit for TNG. Berman and Taylor too. That series was a masterpiece.

    I also have to give Braga and his colleagues some credit for Voyager. They came up with many great episodes. "Projections" which you mention in your post is one of my absolute Voyager favorites.

    Unfortunately, Braga and his colleagues made a lot of crap too. bad episodes and bad decisions.
    As for Braga, it sometimes looked as he didn't remember what he had written the week before, sort of :
    "Oops, did we kill off Neelix in the latest episode? Ah, never mind, he'll be alive in the next one. The viewers won't notice or bother."

    And if a person starts his life by making good things, then turn evil and starts maikng only bad things, then people will remember the bad things, not the good ones.

    Anyway, Brannon Braga is one of the people I really would like to sit down and have a chat with. No arguing, no fight, just a nice, friendly chat over a cup of coffee or so. It would be an interesting debate.

    But I would porobably ask him some quiestions like, "Now why in the world did you come up with THAT?
    :)
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This one took some thinking.

    The "Threshold" problem: This episode was not only abominably bad in its own right, but it wrecked canon and continuity by making Warp 10 attainable, completely redefined evolution for it's own purposes, and had Janeway and Paris not only produce offspring but also abandon them. The only way to fix it is to declare that it didn't happen.

    Meld

    KIM: "Game." (he observes that Tom seems a little tired) "You Ok, Tom?"
    PARIS: "I'm fine. I just had a bit of a rough night last night."
    KIM: "What happened?"
    PARIS: "It was weird. I dreamed that I found a way to go warp 10, but it caused me to turn into a giant lizard. And then the captain turned into a lizard too, and then... well..."
    KIM: "What happened?"
    TOM: "Never mind. Let's just say I'm never eating Neelix's leola root casserole again.
    Why don't we make it interesting this time. Let's add some table stakes."
     
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  17. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't have issues with Threshold.
    We know from epigenetics that genes can be switched on and off due to environmental conditions. It can be argued that achieving Transwarp in the form of Warp 10 and allowing Paris to exist everywhere simultaneously also exposed him to a ridiculous amount (read - incalculable) of weird phenomena in the universe at the same time, some of which could have interacted with his physiology and pushing genetic mutations into a specific direction (and for which Starfleet and UFP had no way of accounting for when designing 24th century technology - they could predict a LOT of things given how many species in UFP there were which would allow for a massive amount of data on simulating the universe and exponential advancements, but they might not have yet reached a stage where they could predict every possible phenomena in the universe that interacts with subpsace that exists in Trek or how an untold number of them could interact with human physiology under different circumstances).

    Also, Paris and Janeway didn't make a decision to abandon their offspring (because they still weren't in the right frame of mind to arrive at such a decision)... Chakotay was the one who made the call.
    Its also possible that even though they were their offspring, turning them into humans might not have been doable because they were born in salamander form... and they seemed to have been fine on the planet in question.

    As for making Warp 10 attainable in the first place... meh, its not like TransWarp as a concept didn't exist... Warp 10 (or infinite velocity) might be a bit tricky due to the word 'infinite', but you could also say that once the shuttle approached the Threshold, the Bussard collectors were drawing energy from subspace itself... effectively the trip through Warp 10 and massive energy surrounding the shuttle were effectively sustaining the shuttle's stay at infinite velocity.

    Plus, as Torres said, it was also a matter of navigation... IF they could figure out on how to get out of Warp 10 at a specific point (otherwise, it would just get them back right to the point of origin of breaching the threshold).
    My guess is that making such adjustments would have taken a bit of time to do... but should be doable by the end of 24th century or start of the 25th... with some possible ways to stave off genetic mutations, or hit the occupants with concentrated bursts of anti-protons right after exiting TW 10 - up until VOY crew tried it, no such facilities existed, and SF might have to devise a way to do this by drastically minituriazing the device in question... which again could happen by the end of 24th century or early 25th.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  18. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Totally fine. I recently defended Janeway's holo-romancing in "Fair Haven" and Kes's unconventional extended family in "Before and After", writing decisions that many members here have issues with. And I've regularly seen other things on my initial list defended as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  19. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A lot of the VOY episodes people claim are bad were just fine to me and completely explainable within the Trek universe (only problem is that VOY writers left a few things unsaid which as we already established could have easily been addressed with a few seconds of dialogue).

    I also have to say I liked the fact you put in Warp 9.75 as VOY's maximum warp velocity which it could sustain for 12 hrs. This is a lot more in line with majority of TNG and DS9, and also leaves Warp 9.9 in established canon as being 21 473 times light speed as Tom Paris said to Amelia Earhart... and that past Warp 9.9, every increment results in exponential increase in velocity (and power expenditure).
    Plus, even on VOY it was said on a few occasions that Warp 9.75 (not 9.975) is the 'maximum Warp velocity'. Because at 9.975 being cruising speed, it would have taken the ship just under a week to cross 75 000 Ly's... in which case, the better case would have been if the writers threw Voyager over 200 million Ly's away (at which point it would have taken them 75 years to get back at Warp 9.975 - and arguably... would have actually given us the impression SF really pushed by leaps and bounds in Warp development with Intrepid class ships - oh well).

    Also, we've seen in Lower Decks that there was a SF crewman or officer who was in same salamander form as Paris was... this would suggest that Starfleet is in fact experimenting with Warp 10 (infinite velocity) after Voyager's return (and probably other technologies it brought back) and that 'Threshold' is in fact canon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Using the warp calculator [ https://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/index.html ] W9.975 is about 5100c, while 9.75 is more like 2200. I figure if that were Voyager's top speed (like a Honda Civic can hit 130 on a racetrack, but its engine will blow if it keeps it up), then 1000c (W8) would be like cruising at 55 or so, which you could do indefinitely.