Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x04 - "No Win Scenario"

[Timofnine]

They’re all Changelings…
On a doomed ship…

It could be a bit like Course: Oblivion.

All of the real TNG crew could turn up in the season finale for 5 minutes at the end eating Riker’s stone baked pizza and sipping on Châteaux Picard vintage 2386, all appearing quite blasé like nothing had ever happened? Deanna could also be *really* drunk again like in Star Trek: First Contact.

Picard season 3 could all be a simulation taking place in a ‘sub flow’ of the Great Link which is suffering from some form of collective cognitive disfunction or mass hallucination resulting from a virus or infection?

Perhaps Jack Crusher fell in to this ‘Broken Link’?

 

[jaime]

It could be a bit like Course: Oblivion.

All of the real TNG crew could turn up in the season finale for 5 minutes at the end eating Riker’s stone baked pizza and sipping on Châteaux Picard vintage 2386, all appearing quite blasé like nothing had ever happened? Deanna could also be *really* drunk again like in Star Trek: First Contact.

Only after we see Picard and Crusher marry of course.

 

[Timofnine]

Only after we see Picard and Crusher marry of course.

Well, the abrupt reunion ending could actually be set at the Wedding?

 

[Weyoun 251]

Kirk wouldn't know how to swear back, even if a little off sometimes, if there was no swearing at all. All the examples I chose in my earlier post were from outside of TVH.

In TVH, Kirk said that "no one pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word" in 1986. He never said there was no swearing at all in the 23rd Century. Spock in TVH is also socially inept and had his mind re-trained and everything was still coming back to him. He wasn't quite himself yet.

There's also the fact that Star Trek has been produced over several decades. What else has changed over the last several decades is the loosening of standards. TOS was made during a time when the Hays Code had only just lost its grip. The TOS Movies were Rated PG. Dropping F-bombs would've pushed it up to R when they were made. It wasn't like today where almost everything is PG-13 and they'll allow the word "fuck" if it's used in a non-sexual context. The movies from FC onwards (except for Insurrection) are all PG-13. Though none of the movies say "fuck". DSC did it once awkwardly. They don't use that word in SNW. But PIC is intended to be more "adult" than DSC or SNW and definitely the movies, and it's within the range of what's now considered "acceptable" for PG-13 (or TV-14), so they're using it here.

Before PIC, DS9 was the most adult Star Trek. If it were allowable back then, DS9 would've used the word "fuck". Ron Moore's BSG used "frak" in lieu of "fuck", so I strongly suspect that if he could've gotten away with it, he would've used "fuck" on BSG and would've used it on DS9.

EDITED TO ADD: Then there's Leah Brahams in TNG itself. The first thing she says to Geordi when she gets off the transporter pad at the beginning of "Galaxy's Child" is, "So you're the one who fouled up my engines!" The way she said it, you know what she really would've said if the censors would've allowed it. Let's not fool ourselves. You know, I know, everyone knows. Don't pretend otherwise.

"So you're the one who fouled up my engines!" is the Honorary First F-Bomb in Star Trek.

I've mentioned it before - and it shows how ridiculous certain things with censors are - but DS9 went bigger than "fuck" by having Jake use the N word in the first of the 1960's Benny Russell episodes.

Enterprise definitely had Trip and Archer using more colourful language too - sure "son of a bitch" got used at least once

 

[Tuskin38]

Enterprise definitely had Trip and Archer using more colourful language too - sure "son of a bitch" got used at least once

To play devil advocate, Enterprise is a lot closer to our time than other shows. But yeah 'bitch' was used quite a few times in Enterprise.

'Son of a bitch' was said by McCoy in ST3, Scotty called Azetbur a bitch in ST6. Lilly also used the word in First Contact, but she's from that time period.

Bastard was used a couple times in Enterprise. Used once in DS9 and TNG, but both usages were not by Starfleet/Federation characters. Kirk called the Klingons bastards in ST3 and ST5. Riker called the Son'a bastards in Insurrection.

 

[jackoverfull]

I've mentioned it before - and it shows how ridiculous certain things with censors are - but DS9 went bigger than "fuck" by having Jake use the N word in the first of the 1960's Benny Russell episodes

I don't remember it (but I haven't watched that episode in over ten years), but I imagine it mage sense in context? As in, said by a racist character?

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't remember it (but I haven't watched that episode in over ten years), but I imagine it mage sense in context? As in, said by a racist character?

They said who said it in their post, it was Jake (well the character represented by Jake in the Benny world)

 

[jackoverfull]

Well, one should see it in context.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Well, one should see it in context.

The context was that the police/white people in general "just saw them as a bunch of..." (I think that is the quote) so you are right that the context fit but, certainly when looking back on it it is jarring still

 

[Weyoun 251]

To play devil advocate, Enterprise is a lot closer to our time than other shows. But yeah 'bitch' was used quite a few times in Enterprise.

'Son of a bitch' was said by McCoy in ST3, Scotty called Azetbur a bitch in ST6. Lilly also used the word in First Contact, but she's from that time period.

Bastard was used a couple times in Enterprise. Used once in DS9 and TNG, but both usages were not by Starfleet/Federation characters. Kirk called the Klingons bastards in ST3 and ST5. Riker called the Son'a bastards in Insurrection.

Agreed on your first point that it is a good 150 years closer than TUC (give or take a bit) and so would be more common - was more to show that even in the early 00's the censors were changing the rules and Star Trek ran open armed into the space to use the wider range of language permitted.

I don't tend to think of the films as cinema has always had a higher tolerance for language than TV but it is still simply them using it if they can get away with it

 

[Turtletrekker]

I've mentioned it before - and it shows how ridiculous certain things with censors are - but DS9 went bigger than "fuck" by having Jake use the N word in the first of the 1960's Benny Russell episodes.

Agreed. That word is far, far more offensive than "fuck".

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Jack basically just turned 21 assuming he was conceived immediately after Nemesis, and even that's assuming Nemesis took place at the beginning of 2379. We know he'd been on board the Eleos for months if not years now, long enough to have at least 3 separate identities. If he had a university education he'd have to have had accelerated education and be a genius like Kelvin Chekov.

Present-day schools are trying to accelerate kids' educations. They take calculus and advanced mathematics as early as 10th grade. Some middle schools offer "highly gifted" programs that are incredibly advanced. Maybe it's possible that by the 24th century, the educational landscape won't look quite like it does today...

 

[Lt Mo]

Present-day schools are trying to accelerate kids' educations. They take calculus and advanced mathematics as early as 10th grade. Some middle schools offer "highly gifted" programs that are incredibly advanced. Maybe it's possible that by the 24th century, the educational landscape won't look quite like it does today...

There’s an episode of TNG where an elementary school-aged kid refers to taking calculus.
Maybe Jack went to the 24th century version of virtual school. If it exists now, I’m sure it’s still an option in the future.

 

[XCV330]

Seems like that shouldn't be an issue if it was built to run on the other power source.

Starfleet keeps forgetting to buy the adaptor.

 

[Lord Garth]

but DS9 went bigger than "fuck" by having Jake use the N word in the first of the 1960's Benny Russell episodes.

A black character said it in a Mid-20th Century setting, rightfully complaining about the discrimination and harassment blacks faced while making a larger point from a perspective most of the audience didn't have. Under any other circumstance, the use of that word wouldn't have been allowed. I'm 100% certain there was a discussion before they filmed that line. It wasn't something they did casually.

 

[jaime]

I've mentioned it before - and it shows how ridiculous certain things with censors are - but DS9 went bigger than "fuck" by having Jake use the N word in the first of the 1960's Benny Russell episodes.

Enterprise definitely had Trip and Archer using more colourful language too - sure "son of a bitch" got used at least once

I think it may have had a pretty decent story reason for it no? And was it Jake? Or was it Jake inside the prophet vision, set in Earth’s past?
Or is there some episode I missed where they got an early 21st century rapper in with Vic, and Jake-o was spittin some rhymes?

 

[Weyoun 251]

I think it may have had a pretty decent story reason for it no? And was it Jake? Or was it Jake inside the prophet vision, set in Earth’s past?
Or is there some episode I missed where they got an early 21st century rapper in with Vic, and Jake-o was spittin some rhymes?

Prophet vision Jake, and you are right that it has a solid story reason but that word being used on daytime/early evening/family TV, in a show that was PG to 12 at most is a huge deal - especially in a story written by a very white man.

 

[Weyoun 251]

A black character said it in a Mid-20th Century setting, rightfully complaining about the discrimination and harassment blacks faced while making a larger point from a perspective most of the audience didn't have. Under any other circumstance, the use of that word wouldn't have been allowed. I'm 100% certain there was a discussion before they filmed that line. It wasn't something they did casually.

I am not trying to say it was done flippantly - it is exceptionally well done and hits hard - but the use of the word on a show like that would not be allowed these days and for good reason considering the rise in racial hatred in society

 

[Turtletrekker]

There’s an episode of TNG where an elementary school-aged kid refers to taking calculus.
Maybe Jack went to the 24th century version of virtual school. If it exists now, I’m sure it’s still an option in the future.

Students at 29th century high schools had phase discriminators built into their desks.

 

[jaime]

Prophet vision Jake, and you are right that it has a solid story reason but that word being used on daytime/early evening/family TV, in a show that was PG to 12 at most is a huge deal - especially in a story written by a very white man.

There has long been, in some places at any rate, a sensible sliding scale on whether a thing in a show or film is suitable in context tbh. This was also the era of NYPD Blue. (A much more adult show, but still pushing boundaries) Or Schindlers List (though somehow Spielberg always gets lower ratings, without needing justification in context — look at Jurassic Park) which are all about *something*.

Goes back to the difference between ‘Klingon Bastards’ and ‘Fucking Cool’ but fundamentally, it’s about context.

Personally, in series one, it would have been more fun to get a new Rhihansu naughty word in all the Game Of Thrones bait.