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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

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Anyone else really confused at the "You can't replicate the spore drive" bit?

Stamets is the drives literal creator, so the only way Starfleet shouldn't be able to replicate it is if Stamets refuses to actually write up blueprints for the damn things...

They can replicate the drive itself all the live-long day given enough time to examine it. It's the genetics used to interface that's the sticky wicket.

Or these guys
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Dilithium not included.

We still can't build Pyramids. And that's even longer ago, from where we are.

We can't?? Have...have we been trying?

We can't go to the Moon.

?????

I'm pretty sure that Spock told Kirk it could be learned but would take time and a lot of practice.

"I wish you could teach me that."
"I have tried, captain."
- Naked Now, if I remember correctly.

It was widely acknowledged on DS9 that replicated food was not as good as natural, grown, prepared food.

Though, to be fair, those were Cardassian replicators.

Half measures all.

You...chose your username very well.

So, evil is better than incompetent?

Must...resist...making...a joke about...modern...American politics....

All genetic diseases were minor by the Voyager era, that's what happens when you can literally re-write a persons genetic structure as much as you want to no real detriment.

By all logic they've been a complete non-issue since Unnatural Selection back in season 2 of TNG.

And it took a de-aged Picard, Guinan, and Keiko

No love for Ro?
 
Well from the last episode, Kelpians went from Living about 20 years (IE - they killed themselves as they entered their form of puberty) to living over 120 years (as that's about the age of the Kelpian in the holodeck of the ship on the dilithium planet); And that's probably without a lot of working medical technology as that holodeck is in rough shape.

Yeah I agree that it's kind of ridiculous that there would be no humans in Starfleet currently that remember the burn. Hell, The Vulcans and Romulans on N'avar should still have plenty of citizens alive (including scientists) who were alive and working in their fields at the exact time the Burn happened. I think that's one aspect of this new world that the writers have so far pretty much glossed over. Especially with respect to the Vulcans considering how long they lived 930 years ago.
One thing that kind of dawned on me some years ago is that the whole thing with Vulcans living a very long time because of some biological differences, while true, was also due to in part the advanced medical technology of the 23rd and 24th century. Human beings may not live as long as Vulcans, but they sure as heck live a lot longer than today. Before I realized that, I thought Vulcans lived over double what a human does, but really, it's more like a third more.

Another point of relevancy in this is it is also sort of explored in the Expanse. The Martian Ambassador is 120 years years old and looks like he's in his late 50s. A Martian Admiral nearing retirement has served for 60 years (in the real world, it's typically 35 years or at the mandatory retirement age of 65, with 40+ years an exceptional circumstances like a very senior promotion). Avasarala is about 90 years old before the 30 year time jump in the books. But things happen in the Expanse over very long time scales due to the distances involved and "realistic" speed of travel.

Human beings living longer and healthier isn't something Star Trek really ever touched on except in the most general sense. And it really didn't have much reason to until now. The Burn almost forces it though because so many characters talk about it like life cataclysm they lived through that left significant psychic scarring in their lifes - a galactic scale 9/11 or Indian Ocean Earthquake - and not something they read about growing up, akin to say, the American Civil War, or the Dust Bowl. This is important for Vance's character in particular. The motivations of a man who wants to restore something he knew in his youth that was brought low, versus the motivations of a man who want to return something he inherited to an idealized state he only ever heard about, are entirely different. The former only works if Vance is like, 200 years old already.

My personal view? I hope that everyone in the Federation in the show who looks late middle aged or older was born sometime in the 30th century. That makes the Temporal War an early formative experience - kind of like fighting World War II when you're 20 - only for the Burn in the 31st century being the unexpected turn their lives took in the prime of their lives... like 9/11 / War on Terror for the boomers. And now as their lives / careers are sunsetting, Discovery appears and offers them one last chance to return the Federation to what they knew when they were young.

But that said, Discovery, while much improved this season, is an intrinsically sloppy show when it comes to details and character arcs like this, so we're almost certainly dealing with characters who age like 21st century humans do more or less, and we're not supposed to think about it much when Vance goes all teary eyed over an idealistic galactic utopia that effectively ceased to exist 85 years before he was born
 
I definitely get where you're coming from. I just don't necessarily believe just because the character states something in season 1, that it has to be treated as gospel for the remainder of the series either. It's like Picard stating that they have never met the Ferengi or Borg before the encounters with the Enterprise, but we learn later that other people within or outside of the Federation actually did. In both cases, Picard is making a statement that is to the best of his knowledge at the time, but which later turns out to be inaccurate because the writers decided to either retcon or ignore the earlier statement. In this case, while Stamets *says* it's processing power, season 3 is *showing* that there is more to the spore drive than simply processing speed.
We'll agree to disagree then.

As I said it seems a bit unnecessary when a character has stated 'the problem is this' to argue that the character is incorrect and the opposite is true. The same as if Riker says he was born in Alaska arguing that he was born in Spain seems unnecessary.

But there you go. To each their own.
 
There's a bit of a difference to Riker saying he's from Alaska and him saying the Borg give birth to babies in fancy drawers, though. I mean, he never said the latter, but that's sort of what he was indicated to be believing in "Q Who?". He may be smart, but he's generally out of his depth when facing the unknown. And it's up to the writers to decide, then or later on, whether the character got it right or fatally wrong.

Stamets in S1 still knows squat about his spore drive, despite his posturing. He might have gotten some things right by virtue of sheer hero power, but him getting some things wrong would be no biggie, and perhaps not even worth a bit of retcon dialogue - even though today's episode once again shows that such dialogue can be done with panache, at least when Frakes then directs it.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I watched the last few minutes again, I still think something is up with Vance. I don't think it was my TV playing up but they seemed to focus on him and there was a strange sound effect or something, did something weird happen to his face, like a hologram or something?
 
That's just the sound of Osyraa departing... Via a futuro-door or via transporter, we don't see, but the sound could be either.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Divert power to shields? He originally seemed to wonder what Osyraa hoped to achieve by arriving in a single ship: it might not be possible for the Viridian to harm the base, unless the Discovery does some harm from the inside first.

Which is where I trust the whole Chekov's Gun thing with the shield being powered by the ships within will come to play: the Discovery has the potential to harm those ships, and thus to bring the otherwise invincible shield down.

Timo Saloniemi
 
According to the actress who plays Osyraa (Janet Kidder), she was aiming for a so-called Mid-Atlantic accent, which is an accent that combines American and British accents. The Mid-Atlantic accent is a real accent, but a cultivated one (meaning that nobody is born speaking it, but rather they are trained to speak it). It used to be very common in early cinema, and also encouraged in certain boarding schools.

For an example of this accent elsewhere in television, the characters Frasier and Niles Crane, in the TV show "Frasier", use the accent as well.
Interesting choice........did she say if she JUST used it in the scenes with Vance? Reminded me of Carrie Fisher's on again off again accent in A New Hope when she was speaking with Tarkin and Vader.
 
In the beginning of the ep, Burnham and Booker used a transwarp conduit to reach Discovery and the Veridian, correct?

If so, what's up with all the debris inside the conduit? All those ships were destroyed by the Burn while in transit?

After 100+ years, should there be any debris left or what happens in the conduit, stays in the conduit?
 
In the beginning of the ep, Burnham and Booker used a transwarp conduit to reach Discovery and the Veridian, correct?

If so, what's up with all the debris inside the conduit? All those ships were destroyed by the Burn while in transit?

After 100+ years, should there be any debris left or what happens in the conduit, stays in the conduit?

Probably not, but we've seen that the subspace corridors in the Delta Quadrant such as the ones used by the Vaud'waar for example contained 900 year old destroyed hulls.

Also, Osyraa DID use a TW conduit to reach Disco faster in 11th episode, but in this one, Burnham and Booker both entered a 'subspace corridor' (which is used by the couriers).
I suppose its the same thing as a TW conduit (depending on how one phrases it, but I am a bit curious how Disco writers backtrack and apparently use different naming for same phenomena... even Voyager was more consistent than that).

At any rate, its possible that these destroyed ships were either in transit or became 'wedged' somehow in subspace once the Dilithium exploded.
That, or they were destroyed in transit prior to the burn.
 

You...chose your username very well.
I'm not sure why people have problems with this concept. We are discussing losing access to technology. Project Apollo is a technology we can no longer replicate because of its complexity. Extrapolating from a few principles is not the same thing as the Apollo project. Scientists readily admit this. I reference articles in this thread that discuss the inability to access Project Apollo technology. When contemporary engineers talk about new efforts to get to the Moon as well as Mars, they admit that they are starting from scratch.
 
I'm not sure why people have problems with this concept. We are discussing losing access to technology. Project Apollo is a technology we can no longer replicate because of its complexity. Extrapolating from a few principles is not the same thing as the Apollo project. Scientists readily admit this. I reference articles in this thread that discuss the inability to access Project Apollo technology. When contemporary engineers talk about new efforts to get to the Moon as well as Mars, they admit that they are starting from scratch.

Seriously what are you on about. Of course they are not starting from scratch if they want to go to the moon the science and schematics are easily available
 
In the beginning of the ep, Burnham and Booker used a transwarp conduit to reach Discovery and the Veridian, correct?

If so, what's up with all the debris inside the conduit? All those ships were destroyed by the Burn while in transit?

After 100+ years, should there be any debris left or what happens in the conduit, stays in the conduit?
Just another one of Discos we have CGI so we have to use it to the max Michael Bay moments
 
Seriously what are you on about. Of course they are not starting from scratch if they want to go to the moon the science and schematics are easily available
Yes, they are designing entirely new launch systems and vehicles. NASA readily admits this. Are the scientists and administrators at NASA lying?
 
Of course they are designing new ones it would be stupid to send anyone to the moon on an Apollo spacecraft in 2021
That doesnt mean the tech behind it is lost
Yes, it is. Instead of being incredulous, do some research. Use google to find out how much Project Apollo tech--not simply rocketry princples--are being employed. I cited articles. Please do the same.
 
What I find curious is that they intentionally seem to be keeping the Fed President’s identity a secret to the audience. They have gone out of their way to provide absolutely no hint as to who it might be, or of what species. I’m wondering if we’ll get some kind of shock reveal next week - a Borg or Founder, maybe? Or maybe yet another new type of Klingon? The whole thing is probably irrelevant in the grand scheme of the story, but I am intrigued by it.
 
What I find curious is that they intentionally seem to be keeping the Fed President’s identity a secret to the audience. They have gone out of their way to provide absolutely no hint as to who it might be, or of what species. I’m wondering if we’ll get some kind of shock reveal next week - a Borg or Founder, maybe? Or maybe yet another new type of Klingon? The whole thing is probably irrelevant in the grand scheme of the story, but I am intrigued by it.
I think there isnt one and Vance is running the show
 
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