Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

[137th Gebirg]

I’ve seen that theory bounced about. If this were true, the rules of etiquette would require that everyone at SFHQ address Vance as Mr. President, and not Admiral. I’m sure he doesn’t want the appearance of a military dictatorship, especially in light of his recent revelations about preserving the principles of the Federation to Osyraa. I really don’t think that’s the answer.

 

[F. King Daniel]

THE DROIDS DID THE VULCAN SALUTE BEST STAR TREK EPISODE EVER 10/10

Ignoring that for a second, a very good episode 7/10. Loved the negotiations. Good John McClaine Michael Burnham. I too am wondering if the future Federation is a military dictatorship run by Vance.

 

[Noname Given]

"I wish you could teach me that."
"I have tried, captain."
- Naked Now, if I remember correctly.

"The Naked Now" was a TNG episode.

The above exchange between Kirk and Spock occurred in the TOS S2 episode: "The Omega Glory" Right after Spock nerve pinches Yang Cloud Williams 'girlfriend" as Kirk and Cloud William are fighting in a cell.

Turn in your Star Trek Nerd card.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Did anyone else think of the Elite Force games when they saw Michael materialize her phaser then vanish it again?

 

[Tuskin38]

I was wondering why Kanak looked so familiar, she played Billie the Reaper/Death in Supernatural

Did anyone else think of the Elite Force games when they saw Michael materialize her phaser then vanish it again?

Yes

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Osyraa wiped that Ryn off his face...

See, this is why I won't grow a spine, either. What's the point?

 

[Tuskin38]

Do you guys think Ken Mitchell’s character falls under the evil disabled person trope?

Ive seen some mumblings online about it from some disabled people. People who actually the show, not the haters.

 

[flandry84]

Once again Discovery being more interested in being overwrought than getting on with business.

The wicked witch’s accent kinda reminded me of how Gillian Anderson sounds now.

 

[Leto_II]

Do you guys think Ken Mitchell’s character falls under the evil disabled person trope?

Judging just by this one episode, definitely not -- he's clearly someone who's naive and trusting, but has also been massively lied-to over the course of entire decades by Osyraa; his discomfiture at the end on the bridge seems to be setting the stage for his conscience to finally kick in next week. It's just gonna take a little time for that to happen, since he's been "sheltered" most of his life away from the Emerald Chain's true atrocities.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Do you guys think Ken Mitchell’s character falls under the evil disabled person trope?

Ive seen some mumblings online about it from some disabled people. People who actually the show, not the haters.

Doctor Strangelove, anyone?
Make that Doctor Sporelove...

 

[Lord Garth]

We can't?? Have...have we been trying?

Not the way the Egyptians built them. Their techniques were something different from what ours would be. (link)

Someone already tried to pick a fight with me about this earlier. He felt like he was really gunning for it too. Basically the last thing I was expecting. So I thought, "Yeah, if I knew he was going to come on this strongly, I wouldn't have said anything at all because this isn't how I want to spend my New Year's Eve!" It caught me off-guard. So it's not exactly a rabbit-hole I want to go down again.

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But my main point was it's not just level of technology, it's also resources available and knowing how to harness those resources to actually get the Spore Drive. Any data the Federation used to have was wiped out. Presumably in 2258. So now they're trying to figure out "How did they do it before?"

In an ideal situation, they would've assigned Stamets off Discovery. But because Discovery can't operate its Spore Drive without Stamets, they had to have him stay there.

The technology for the Spore Drive was invented in the 23rd Century but never perfected. So in the third season, Starfleet had to pick up where it left off 930 years ago but with all the tools rearranged and some of them no longer available.

The key thing that made the Spore Drive work was Tartigrade DNA. But they've established that Tartigrades are now extinct. So that's a major missing piece.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Not the way the Egyptians built them. Their techniques were something different from what ours would be. (link)

Is there a quick summary? What are the 9 engineering feats the title speaks about? I'm halfway through the article and drilling holes is the only one feat mentioned thus far. I did catch at least one fringe hypothesis about the age of the Sphinx, however.

 

[Lord Garth]

Is there a quick summary? What are the 9 engineering feats the title speaks about? I'm halfway through the article and drilling holes is the only one feat mentioned thus far. I did catch at least one fringe hypothesis about the age of the Sphinx, however.

All the pages I checked have large articles like this.

It's something I first heard about while watching the Discovery Channel. It was some time during the '90s or '00s, so I don't remember the exact show or episode. But it's just something that's stuck with me for 20-or-so years. I didn't think to question it at the time. All the way up until this thread.

My thinking was: "I learned about the Dark Ages in school. Technology was lost. This is something similar. Technology was lost. We forgot how to build or recreate certain things." And that's as far as I went with it.

EDITED TO ADD: Science isn't my strongest suit. If someone comes to a conclusion that looks impressive enough, and they're published, I'm more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt and defer to them. My rationale being "They must know a lot more about this than I do!"

Which is a logical fallacy of falling back on authority, but if it doesn't occur to me to question something, I'm not going to challenge it unless I think I have reason to do so. I also generally think it's arrogant to assume we know everything about everything and our predecessors didn't even possibly know some things that we don't. So if that's already my basic belief, then it makes me more apt to lean toward the case of "Some technology has been lost."

2nd EDIT: Here's an earlier link I posted upthread. It's not as dense of a read.

 

[Tim Thomason]

What I find curious is that they intentionally seem to be keeping the Fed President’s identity a secret to the audience. They have gone out of their way to provide absolutely no hint as to who it might be, or of what species. I’m wondering if we’ll get some kind of shock reveal next week - a Borg or Founder, maybe? Or maybe yet another new type of Klingon? The whole thing is probably irrelevant in the grand scheme of the story, but I am intrigued by it.

It ought to be someone that alarms the Discovery crew (and possibly audience). Borg would be a little outlandish. Founder, maybe, but the Disco guys know nothing of them.

So I'm leaning towards the mysteriously absent Klingons. A carefully designed Klingon President (probably evocative of both the TNG style and S2 Disco style) is the best bet. And the President will congratulate Burnham and crew and shake hands with Aurelio over some voice over about enemies becoming friends.

 

[Adorkable]

Decent episode, I'd give it a 8/10. Osyrra genuinely wanting peace but also causing sadism, death and destruction makes a lot of sense to me. As obviously, a person dead is also one that becomes completely at peace. Osyrra probably isn't quite as self-absorbed as she appears but that doesn't make her a "good" character either.

My main grievance with the show: It has been really hitting me how the lack of a strong Captain is hurting discovery. Saru is too Beta Male nicey-nice to make an effective Captain (not that there's anything with that it's just poor captain material) and Tilly is obviously the wrong choice as both co-Captain and a Number One. She has a childhood ideal to become Captain one day but it won't ever feel earned or "right" for me until she's much older and also much more hardened through real life experiences. Michael feels too all over the place to be Captain or even Number 1, and it's also often difficult to even give her a rank or title due to how capricious and ambivalent she can be. To me it's like spends so much of her time mentally debating with herself on if she should even be on the show or not, and it just weakens the entire thing.

But that doesn't mean I want a typical "confident white neurotypical straight male" as Captain either as although it works in a very generic way it's also a bit played out. They just have to actually be captain material and evoke a sense of authority and loyalty from others due to their tough bad ass-ness and eye on the bigger picture. If you need to give it to a minority to be refreshing or to advocate social causes I don't care much (though the thing with Adira feels too forced to me)

At least the show has stopped trying to be Game of Thrones in Space ... thank God.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

We're not still arguing whether we could build a pyramid if the need arose are we!?

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Saru is too Beta Male nicey-nice to make an effective Captain...

'Beta male'? Yawn. I suppose you're chopping down trees with an axe and eating raw meat with your bare hands?

Seriously what does it even mean!?

 

[cooleddie74]

"Beta Maley"?

 

[Discofan]

'Beta male'? Yawn. I suppose you're chopping down trees with an axe and eating raw meat with your bare hands?

Seriously what does it even mean!?

He's forgetting that Saru has switched his condition of submissive prey to predator (with the whole Vahar'ai thing remember?) so even he could be qualified as "beta male" before, he's now an alpha male in his own right.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Except the issue wasn't solely processing power. The drive only worked correctly when it had a biological navigator who could interact with the mycelial plane and it was stated back in season 1 by Admiral Cornwell that drive was useless without the tardigrade. This is reiterated again in this weeks episode when Stamets says that he was also unable to replicate the tardigrade cells.

Not 100% useless. They were doing short jumps without the navigator, and jumped into a sun on the longer attempt.

What bugs me is, once they had the tardigrade, and could see the map, why TH couldn't they just save the map? Does the network change and evolve? Did they mention anything to that effect?