Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

[picardjean-luc]

Strangely enough despite programmable matter and gimmicky transporters, everything about the TNG era seems more advanced than the 32nd century. Note how Data immediately locks out the main computer in First Contact "with a fractal encryption code. It is highly unlikely that the Borg will be able to break it".

Meanwhile the supposed combination of the Sphere Data and 32nd century tech can't even stop Osyraa and her goons.

TBH, this is a typical Trek plothole that I've seen in almost every Trek series, where a menacing but relatively weak villain alien somehow managed to outsmart and defeat a much superior Federaton ship. Whenever I rewatched TNG's "Rascals" I always scoffed seeing why did the Enterprise-D, the most advanced Federation ship of its time with 1,000+ crew members and most advanced weapons tech, couldn't ward off an assault from a bunch of Ferengi ships (it's the Ferengi for goodness sake, c'mon. Couldn't you just blow up their ships to kingdom's come with one or two well-targeted photon torpedoes??)

And it took a de-aged Picard, Guinan, and Keiko (all turned into young teens due to a transporter mishap) to save the day rather than adult officers like Riker, Worf, etc. As much as I enjoyed the comic aspect of the episode, this episode always left me wonder about how the D would've fared if it's being attacked by the Klingons, Romulans, Cardies, or more menacing aliens out there, if it was easily defeated by an alien race that at that time (prior to its DS9 rehabilitation) was considered to be the "comic relief" villain of the Trek-verse

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I was kind of predicting we'd find out that Starfleet was the actual bad guys and the Emerald Chain wasn't as bad as you might think. Or else they're both assholes and the 'real' Federation is out there somewhere still.

 

[eschaton]

TBH, this is a typical Trek plothole that I've seen in almost every Trek series, where a menacing but relatively weak villain alien somehow managed to outsmart and defeat a much superior Federaton ship. Whenever I rewatched TNG's "Rascals" I always scoffed seeing why did the Enterprise-D, the most advanced Federation ship of its time with 1,000+ crew members and most advanced weapons tech, couldn't ward off an assault Ferengi fleet (it's the Ferengi for goodness sake, c'mon. Couldn't you just blow up their ship to kingdom's come with one or two well-targeted photon torpedoes??)

And it took a de-aged Picard, Guinan, and Keiko (all turned into young teens due to a transporter mishap) to save the day rather than adult officers like Riker, Worf, etc. As much as I enjoyed the comic aspect of the episode, this episode always left me wonder about how the D would've fared if it's being attacked by the Klingons, Romulans, Cardies, or more menacing aliens out there, if it was easily defeated by an alien race that at that time (prior to its DS9 rehabilitation) was considered to be the "comic relief" villain of the Fed-verse

This is one of those things though that is a lot more forgivable in an episodic show with 26 episodes per season than a serialized show with 13. I mean, one of the arguments people use to explain why we should be okay with half as much (or even less than half as much) Trek in each series is because with the shorter seasons there won't be "filler episodes." Only I feel like even though I've enjoyed some of each of the modern Trek series, there has been basically the same ratio of filler to high-quality as in any other Trek series.

 

[fireproof78]

I was kind of predicting we'd find out that Starfleet was the actual bad guys and the Emerald Chain wasn't as bad as you might think. Or else they're both assholes and the 'real' Federation is out there somewhere still.

Or else the Federation has mix of good and assholes.

 

[Tuskin38]

I noticed the DOTs had a department coloured eyes, blue red and yellow.

 

[Kevman7987]

Finally an intruder was spaced! I've always wanted an intruder to be beamed into space or blown out an airlock.

They finally had the guts to say what we've always known; the base matter for replicators is poop.

The sphere data taking refuge in the robots was cool. We're one step closer to Zora getting an android body.

 

[AlanC9]

Strangely enough despite programmable matter and gimmicky transporters, everything about the TNG era seems more advanced than the 32nd century. Note how Data immediately locks out the main computer in First Contact "with a fractal encryption code. It is highly unlikely that the Borg will be able to break it".

Well, that depends on whether you figure higher technology levels favor encryption or decryption. Some years back, I think the NYT magazine ran a collection of short pieces about the future of technology. One predicted that future advances would render all codes breakable, and we would be entering an era of unprecedented transparency. Another predicted that codes would become conceptually unbreakable, and total encryption would offer true privacy forever. In the same issue. (Similarly, two other pieces argued that the future of AI was either to duplicate the personality quirks of the user when, for instance, trading stocks, or to finally replace rotten human decision-making with something logically sound.)

More likely that neither wins, ever. DSC S3 just happens to be set in an era where you can't lock people out if they have physical access. (This implies that Data's confidence was unwarranted, yep, but I think the problem is with First Contact rather than DSC.)

 

[picardjean-luc]

Or else the Federation has mix of good and assholes.

Just look at all the Federation Admirals and supporting cast Captains we saw in all 'Trek' iterations over the course of the past five decades. IMO we can count Ross, Pike (Kelvin-verse), Cornwell and Vance among the "good ones." Many were assholes like Nechayev, Clancy ("F***ing hubris'), Captain Jellico, and so forth. And then there are plenty of "evil" ones like Marcus (at least the Kelvin verse), Cartwright, Pressman, Leyton, Captain Ransom, Dougherty, etc. Last but not least "batshit crazy" ones like Satie.

A thousand years old organisation like the Federation/Starfleet would have hundreds of mllions officers throughout its history with different personalities from good, evil, to fully batshit nuts. In the 32nd century so far we only saw the Fed HQ commanded by Admiral Vance himself, but we haven't seen other Federation outposts which I assume there would be quite a few out there, albeit separated hundreds, if not thousands lightyears away. Some of these are staffed by officers who remained faithful to the Federation ideas like the late Admiral Tal and Vance. Others - which we hope to see in Season 4 - might be more pragmatic and willing to sacrifice these ideas for survival, personal gain, etc. That's just reflecting the diversity of a 1,000 + years organization which have attracted so many people all over the known galaxies to join it due to its high space exploration ideas.

 

[AlanC9]

The whole discussion around Stamets's tardigrade DNA was totally ridiculous, because...we can read DNA right effin now with a spit sample. Consumer-based DNA services only look for certain key SNPs, but I know people who have had their whole genomes read...and I'm not even involved in genetics. This is one of those cases where it's painfully obvious not a single person in the writer's room has even a passing knowledge of contemporary science.

Agreed, but non-replicability of the spore drive was baked in a long time ago. I give current writers a pass when the problem they've been stuck with was introduced a couple of seasons ago. (See also: Mass Effect.)

 

[Fateor]

Agreed, but non-replicability of the spore drive was baked in a long time ago. I give current writers a pass when the problem they've been stuck with was introduced a couple of seasons ago. (See also: Mass Effect.)

Actually it wasn't, the Spore Drive itself was always easily replicable.

Even navigation was possible, because the problem was computational, something that should have been solved by the 32nd century.

 

[AlanC9]

Except it can't be. Because it, you know, wasn't.

 

[Fateor]

Except it can't be. Because it, you know, wasn't.

Actually it was, the ship was the USS Glenn.

 

[Paul755]

A solid 7.

Fehr was really good, I’m glad to see Vance isn’t a bad guy. But I don’t think there is anyway he survives next week.

coulda done with out the shit-apple discussion though.

Stamets yelling at Burnham at the end was really good as well.

 

[JRoss]

Standard stuff. More filler than their needed to be, but I was happy to see Vance make smart decisions.
I just about wept when I saw Kenneth Mitchell's name at the end credits. I didn't recognize him without the prosthetics, but it dawned on me that he must be Aurellio.
I have family and friends who have MS. Three or four friends who were/are quadriplegics. I have worked with special needs people for years, including many with mental and physical disabilities. This is something good and pure. I'm still near to crying, if I'm being honest.

 

[cooleddie74]

I gave this one a solid 8. One of the season's best so far.

 

[Iconian]

They finally had the guts to say what we've always known; the base matter for replicators is poop.

coulda done with out the shit-apple discussion though.

I suppose they can gather the base materials for the replicators from other sources as well, such as planets, asteroids, nebulas, etc.

Heck, there was a flying rain forest when they first arrived at Federation/Starfleet's HQ.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Actually it was, the ship was the USS Glenn.

You do remember what happened to the Glenn because of its navigation system, right?

 

[Mr Awe]

I was talking about Ossyra's point of view. She figures that the Federation would want Discovery back and kowtow. From her view she has the strength. The Federation didn't take it like she thought..

And, what I'm saying is that the Federation's response was utterly predictable. She had a bad plan. Start negotiations by hijacking a Federation ship and then expecting to negotiate in good faith.

I just don't buy into the idea that someone like Ossyra who can effectively run a crime syndicate would be so naïve.

 

[Mr Awe]

I can't comment on The Mandalorian because I've never seen it. I'll watch it at some point and I'll judge it fairly.

I saw all the movies in the theater except Solo (which I haven't seen it all). I liked the Original Trilogy (I saw it in its entirety for the first time in 1997 when they released the Remastered Version), and I liked the Sequel Trilogy (sorry Fandom Menace!), but I did not like the Prequel Trilogy. That's about as far as it goes.

But anyway, yeah, as far as the two Star ____ Franchises go, I thought the early-2000s were a low-point.

Solo was a fun film despite the reviews. ST:ANH was actually my very first film as a child (of course it was just Star Wars at the time). I love the original trilogy. I didn't mind the remastered versions but it's also not like they were a vast improvement. But I didn't hate them either. Prequels suck. And, in the sequel trilogy, I'd only say the first film was good. The resolution in the final film was ok but not great.

I have picked up on an increased SW vibe in the current season of Discovery.

 

[Ghel]

I, for one, really enjoyed this episode.
Interestingly, The Chain scientist verbalized something I wondered about. He says something to the effect of the period 900 years prior as the "golden age" of science. This would imply that there have been periods of either stagnation or backsliding within the past 900 years which neatly explains why Federation tech isn't so advanced as to be completely out of the grasp of the Discovery officers.

Regarding encryption and lockouts: I was ok with the idea that the Discovery crew couldn't lock out the Chain for a number of reasons. 1. While Data could lock out the Borg with a fractal encryption code, he was a unique being and such encryption (advanced though it was) was presumably cracked in the subsequent 800 years or so. 2. Even assuming all of Discovery's computers and programs were immediately upgraded to new Federation standards (which may not even be likely since they still have old programming including the sphere data on board) this episode implies that the Chain is at least as advanced if not more advanced technologically than the Federation. If this is the case, computer lockouts may have only delayed the takeover rather than stopped it completely.

Regarding the sphere data: I, too, wondered why the sphere data didn't just stop the takeover of the ship. Given that the goal of the data/AI is or was simply to protect itself, I am willing to suspend my disbelief regarding this and assume that it has some reason for retreating into the robots that I am not privy to. Perhaps the AI saw this tactic as having the best probability of success.