Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Destroyed? Or sent back in time to wait a thousand years?

I just had a thought.

If that happens, perhaps Craft (from Calypso) was an Emerald Chain operative all along?

It would explain his use of the term "V'Draysh" (the only other person we hear using that word is Zareh).

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I love when Burnham does the nerve pinch.

 

[Discofan]

I wouldn't want to try to replicate Apollo either.

I don't see it as lost as trying a different way. I also don't believe humanity wants to go back to the moon.


You mean...they might actually have a point of doing this decision and it might be for character growth and drama?

What the are they thinking?

Or anywhere else for that matter. The cost is just too high and it will be for a very long time.

 

[fireproof78]

Or anywhere else for that matter. The cost is just too high and it will be for a very long time.

Indeed, yes. Imagine the first person who dies. The outcry and pushback would be enormous.

 

[Discofan]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I love when Burnham does the nerve pinch.

McCoy with Spock's Katra in his head couldn't do it but Archer managed it. I guess it's different for each person.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

McCoy with Spock's Katra in his head couldn't do it but Archer managed it. I guess it's different for each person.

And the fact that Sarek would have been able to personally teach Burnham how to do the pinch (in the flesh, not via katra), surely wouldn't hurt.

 

[fireproof78]

McCoy with Spock's Katra in his head couldn't do it but Archer managed it. I guess it's different for each person.

Funny enough I always took that as the security officer had a special pad to prevent such an occurrence.

And the fact that Sarek would have been able to personally teach Burnham how to do the pinch (in the flesh, not via katra), surely wouldn't hurt.

I'm pretty sure that Spock told Kirk it could be learned but would take time and a lot of practice.

 

[Noname Given]

Well that was not an image I expected from Trek... Feces Apples.

Well now, when upset, any Starship Captain can now honestly claim everyone at Starfleet Command (especially an Admiral) is full of shit.

 

[Discofan]

Well now, when upset, any Starship Captain can now honestly claim everyone at Starfleet Command (especially an Admiral) is full of shit.

At last, they admit that replicated food is recycled shit!! I always thought so. Remember Trip and the poop question? They didn't want to say it back then so he listed a few nonedible items like boots. People use shit as fertilizer for their vegetables... How is that so different?


Note that Osyra stopped eating the moment he said so... She's a little squeamish that one.

 

[Mr Awe]

That probably is good faith to her. You negotiate from a position of strength.

I always love the assumption that everyone should make perfectly logical decisions.

I assume people will try to act in their own self-interests at least. And her plan was just dumb. Given her knowledge of the Federation, did she really think they'd look the other way? I guess she did, but that's why it's a dumb plan!

I'd also say the Federation was pretty lame in the story as well. There's no way they should led the spore drive get away form them. While Discovery had transporter scramblers, you know in any other episode, they'd either find a technobabble solution OR find a way to sneak operatives aboard. They did nothing.

Most of the episode was nonsensical when you think about it.

 

[Aragorn]

Once again, Robert Meyer Burnett trying desperately to build up his so-called "brand," in the absence of actual industry-work:

...Jesus Christ, this guy. "Worse" than, say...Galactica 1980? Or Man From Atlantis? Or Automan? Or even (God help us) Meego?

Didn't he say Star Trek was dead to him? Yet he's still watching.

 

[Mr Awe]

At last, they admit that replicated food is recycled shit!! I always thought so. Remember Trip and the poop question? They didn't want to say it back then so he listed a few nonedible items like boots. People use shit as fertilizer for their vegetables... How is that so different?

It was widely acknowledged on DS9 that replicated food was not as good as natural, grown, prepared food.

 

[eschaton]

I think you make some excellent points about how they haven't effectively serialized the show. There are things they could've build up over the course of the season. Build up their universe and universe of characters so they feel more real and fleshed out. They still haven't mastered serialized story telling. And they don't seem to know how to manage a season long story arc effectively. Their reveals about the music and the Burn have been decidedly underwhelming.

It's frustrating, because I think on an episode-by-episode basis this is the best season of Discovery by far. But the season is turning out to be far less than the sum of its parts overall. The arc is at least coherent (unlike Season 2) but you really get the impression they didn't really have a "grand story" they wanted to tell at all, and were just making things up on the fly. Which is fine, but I feel like this style of semi-serialization was done better by DS9 and ENT's third season.

How did the female regulator's body travel so far, so she could be seen from the bridge? She was sent into space below the port "wing" of the Discovery.

I had a bigger issue with how her body was breaking apart to be honest. I suppose there might be some odd radiation inside of the field protecting the Federation fleet. But a dead body in the cold of space should just be...a dead body in the cold of space.

The Expanse has spoiled me. I want to see vacuum death done right.

 

[Noname Given]

One thing I think would be nice to see made clear soon is exactly how long humans (and Federation citizens) live in the 32nd century. This is important to the story I feel.

We know from TNG that in the 24th century that humans lived for at least 137 years (Dr. McCoy's age). Picard in ST: Picard in 2399 is 94 and while he's clearly slowed down from his time as Captain of the Enterprise-E 20 years prior (when he was 74), besides his brain abnormality he was in good health and had many years left. So let's say that by the late 24th century human beings living to 150 was like living to 85 today, and human beings typically passed away in their mid 130s. We also know from that time that Vulcans lived for 150-200 years as well. Sarek died at 203, Spock at 161.

So how much had that advanced by the 32nd century. Are human beings with access advanced medical technology living 250 years? Longer? Shorter?

This matters because the Burn happened 3069, shortly after the end of the Temporal Cold War. By 3189, which is 120 years later, the Federation and its people had not really recovered from even the psychic trauma of the event. It is talked about like something that happened within the last decade, not an event that happned to people's grandparents or great grandparents.

We know that in the past 120 years, Federation technology seems to have barely advanced. They are using the same ships. Maybe this is due to simple scarcity. But it would be useful if Vance said something like "I was a Lt. Commander when the Burn happened, and...". Because the time scales involved in the statements being made - 120 years ago with the Burn, 50 years for the Emerald Chain to uproot itself from pre-warp civilizations, "We haven't talked to Deep Space 325 in 87 years" (or whatever), and I guess this "Rain Forest ship was lost for 100 years" thing I missed... means entirely different things when the average life span is 300 years and because of the vastness of explored space in the 32nd century and life span of people, things happen on much longer time scales.

For my part I hope that's the case. I think it'd be an interesting story telling direction. And I gather that this is what is implied to be happening given that Aditya Sahil's father and grandfather were federation officers (a minimum of 120 years prior). But the show should just state it plainly that this is the case.

Well from the last episode, Kelpians went from Living about 20 years (IE - they killed themselves as they entered their form of puberty) to living over 120 years (as that's about the age of the Kelpian in the holodeck of the ship on the dilithium planet); And that's probably without a lot of working medical technology as that holodeck is in rough shape.

Yeah I agree that it's kind of ridiculous that there would be no humans in Starfleet currently that remember the burn. Hell, The Vulcans and Romulans on N'avar should still have plenty of citizens alive (including scientists) who were alive and working in their fields at the exact time the Burn happened. I think that's one aspect of this new world that the writers have so far pretty much glossed over. Especially with respect to the Vulcans considering how long they lived 930 years ago.

 

[Discofan]

It was widely acknowledged on DS9 that replicated food was not as good as natural, grown, prepared food.

I think it's a psychological thing. It's copied down to the molecules, how could it be different?

 

[eschaton]

I think it's a psychological thing. It's copied down to the molecules, how could it be different?

Yeah. As I've said before, modern studies have shown that people given double-blind taste tests will say whichever wine they are told is more expensive will taste better. Or people given double-blind taste tests with real and veggie sausages will say the real one tastes better (hopefully the test was done with no vegetarians).

It's all psychology.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's frustrating, because I think on an episode-by-episode basis this is the best season of Discovery by far. But the season is turning out to be far less than the sum of its parts overall. The arc is at least coherent (unlike Season 2) but you really get the impression they didn't really have a "grand story" they wanted to tell at all, and were just making things up on the fly. Which is fine, but I feel like this style of semi-serialization was done better by DS9 and ENT's third season.

I've just rewatched DS9 for the first time since the original run. And they really mastered serialized story telling and universe building. Of course, they had more episodes to play with per season, which allowed them to have entertaining side trips as well.

Agree with the season being less than the sum of its parts. It feels disjoined. Wasted opportunities. Another example, we've barely seen evidence of the Sphere data, but here it is saving the ship with the cute droids.

 

[Noname Given]

I assume people will try to act in their own self-interests at least. And her plan was just dumb. Given her knowledge of the Federation, did she really think they'd look the other way? I guess she did, but that's why it's a dumb plan!

I'd also say the Federation was pretty lame in the story as well. There's no way they should led the spore drive get away form them. While Discovery had transporter scramblers, you know in any other episode, they'd either find a technobabble solution OR find a way to sneak operatives aboard. They did nothing.

Most of the episode was nonsensical when you think about it.

For me the only real nonsensical part was when the Starfleet officer controlling the barrier access said: "They've the gravity well, if we don't open the shield they'll be destroyed.."

Really? Anything that touches that shield is instantly destroyed? Wouldn't it just bounce off, especially if it still had shields up itself (IE the energies of both shield systems would just bounce off each other?

To me it was just really rang false that their only option was to allow the discovery through the shields. If that's the case 32nd century Federation technology is pretty lame.

 

[Discofan]

....
How did the female regulator's body travel so far, so she could be seen from the bridge? ....

First Newtonian law of motion:

If a body is at rest or moving at a constant speed in a straight line, it will remain at rest or keep moving in a straight line at constant speed unless it is acted upon by a force.

 

[Mr Awe]

I think it's a psychological thing. It's copied down to the molecules, how could it be different?

You could well be correct. Although, there's been multiple examples of things that can't be replicate. So, I guess it could go either way. But theoretically if you can transport and replicate a person, you should be able to use similar technology to accurately recreate anything. Copy the pattern and recreate. But needs of the plot in some cases. Sentimentality for the food.