Why do they have to be an alien? It defeats the entire point of representation and treats trans issues as an alien phenomena. It’s insulting and dehumanizing.
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I see your point regarding representation.
What I meant was that Trek's future, those issues should no longer exist. So in order to tell a story about today's issues (as opposed to just having representation), they'd have to be dressed up in alien colours. As @Ceridwen pointed out, it's the difference between TOS crew representation and "Let That be Your Last Battlefield"
You act like there is already plenty of representation for trans people, there isn’t. There is barely any, especially representation that isn’t bigoted and insulting. Plus you keep getting hung up on the idea that trans people are changing sexes. Transitioning is a very small part of their lives and far from the focus. Representation is extremely important to those who don’t get it, I don’t think you can understand this. If you had actually read any of my posts, you would have seen what would work. Imagine that Uhura or Sulu had never been on the show. Instead they had some aliens that represented what the average uninformed white person in the 1960s knew about black or Asian peoples. That’s what you’re suggesting.
If those issues don’t matter in the future, why can’t there be a trans crewmember just doing his or her or their job. Being trans is just part of who they are like how being French was part of who Picard was. He didn’t prance around like Pepe LePew, drinking wine and being rude to random aliens. No, he was the Captain and the focus was on him making moral choices. He had a love of literature, history and he liked detective stories.
Although I understand how it feels like an insult, it's a way to bring changing a gender to the masses. There's a long way to go to fix this problem in society, where a lot of people are still unrightly fearfull of transgender people. One of the things TOS did was bring outlandish ideas (back in the day) as common in the 23rd century. To our standard right now, a lot of what TOS did was sometimes quite insulting. It did however, inspire a lot of people to think differently. Mostly the young minds.
If showing a alien character that changes gender as something that's quite normal, young minds right now will think of it as nothing but normal.
It's going to be incredibly hard to change the rights for transgender people in the course of a year or two. However, if small examples like humans reacting very casually to genderchanging aliens will somehow affect the minds of young adults right now, the same young adults who will shape our future, I think it might just be something inspiring instead of insulting. I also understand that's very easy for me to say, as a straight male, really. Don't think that I'm not taking your experiences into account. I'm aware of some of the things you've posted on the forum, and I'm not trying to attack you. Just trying to look at it from a different angle.
Once again, there is more to trans peoples lives than the fact they go through puberty twice. A gender changing alien regresses trans issues to just that and nothing else. Seeing trans people as humans and normal is far more important, the fact that so many of you are getting so hung up on such a minor detail is proof of that.
Yes I’m trans. But it’s more important that I like to write, I have a fascination with robots and collect them, I have a bizarrely encyclopedic knowledge of classic era Simpsons episodes, my friends adore me because I’m a good listener and give advice, and I have a stack of books by my bed that I keep planning to read. But if an alien was to represent me, it has to be a wacky gender changing alien. A gimmick and nothing more, my humanity reduced to a curiosity.
So no, that’s a terrible idea.
Not sure where you get me saying something about going through puberty twice. And I do understand how you feel about it. I really do. But changing this world will not be a two year plan. It's going to take a few generations. And yes, using humans is a better idea. Christopher Bennett did it in his Rise Of The Federation novels. There's a transgender human in it. Male to female if I remember correctly.
But like I said, changing humanity at its core to accept everyone, by everyone..... That will take time. And examples. And again, yes, using human is the best. But if something like a genderchanging alien being regarded as totally normal by humans can set an example for those that will shape our future? I think that's atleast something.
And I respect your opinion, I do. But I also understand that you don't speak for all transgender people. So you stating that it is a bad idea is an opinion, not a fact. For all you know, there are transgender people out there who feel connected to a character like that. Because it's an individual's choice.
A few generations? We managed to go from homosexuality being considered a crime and mental illness to gay marriage being legal in about forty years. That’s because gay people were increasingly represented in media as sympathetic and normal. This allowed more gay people to feel comfortable enough to come out, causing most straight people to know a few gay people as family and friends. Meanwhile in 48 states it’s a legal defense for a man to have a relationship with a trans woman, murder her and claim she tricked him into sleeping with her. Things are slowly starting to improve for trans people but it can go a lot farther. Given the ignorance and misinformation about trans people, better representation is needed. Especially since a portion of the population and certain political groups are trying to legislate us out of existence. This isn’t just the US, other countries have issues too. It’s actually one of the major civil rights battles going on right now.
And no, I don’t speak for all trans people. But unlike you, I take the time to read and learn. Ask pretty much any trans person alive and they’ll tell you that we need more representation and better representation. Many are calling for a boycott of a film called Anything because it’s terrible representation. The film hired a cis man to play a trans woman. It’s known that trans women tried out for the part but were turned down because they didn’t look trans enough. This means she didn’t look like a man in a dress, a very dangerous One of them was Jen Richards who was recently on the show Nashville, she wrote about it.
A gender changing alien is not representation, it’s a one-off gimmick for a single episode, which has been done twice. We had Odan in The Host, the episode of TNG that introduced the Trill. It’s time for an actual trans character. Other shows have managed it and done a great job. It’s absurd to think Star Trek can’t. Either you don’t believe in the ability of Trek to do it or you don’t believe in the fans being able to accept it. I have more faith in both.
Well, we both said want we wanted to say, I think. I don't generally do debates/discussions online because I feel nuances that are conveyed by voice and body language are missing. So, I'm stepping out of this. I feel this is way to tricky a subject to go into any further.
PS, I would like to state..... You said : But unlike you, I take the time to read and learn. Please do not asume that you know what I do or do not do. I read, I learn. Just because I think differently than you do, doesn't mean I don't educate myself.
This will be my last post in this topic, and on this subject.
Respectfully I'd suggest it's the difference between raising gender as an issue and representing trans people on screen. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most trans people already feel their identity has become enough of an issue in society already. What they are looking for is to see themselves shown onscreen in a positive way that normalises who and what they are, that engenders an atmosphere where people see them as productive, useful, intelligent, sympathetic human beings, not walking talking identity issues.
You know, someone stating that it is a good idea would also be expressing an opinion, not a fact. So, it kinda goes without saying that people stating what kind of idea they think it is, good or bad, are just stating their personal opinion.
Of course the key thing sometimes people miss is some opinions are better informed than others. Where it comes to the experiences of trans people I'm quite happy to accept Possum as an authority and try to learn from her
Yeah, I wasn't implying that all opinions are created equal. I was suggesting that it's pretty redundant to point out that someone's post is an expression of opinion. I suppose that one exception to pointing it out would be if there were some kind of specific and additional point to be made, but I'm not really sure what that would be in this case, nor do I really care to speculate.
As for @Awesome Possum's posts on the representation of transgender people in media, I have found them to be both insightful and educational. It's been a privilege to read them.
As for @Awesome Possum's posts on the representation of transgender people in media, I have found them to be both insightful and educational. It's been a privilege to read them.
Here’s how you do representation without the need for wacky aliens. It’s from Sense8, a show about 8 people from around the world discovering they’re a new species of human who share a sort of network of minds with each other. In this scene Nomi, an American trans woman is talking to Lito, a Mexican gay man who tried to stay in the closet for his acting career.
The entire show is worth checking out. It attempts to humanize and empathize the characters with each other and with the audience on the most basic relatable level. It’s beautiful.
The entire show is worth checking out. It attempts to humanize and empathize the characters with each other and with the audience on the most basic relatable level. It’s beautiful.
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Sorry if I came off harsh, calling my opinion of representation as just my own came off as dismissive. Especially since it is a major issue for trans people, we want to be seen and treated as normal. The best way to do that is through representation in media, which encourages closeted trans people to come out. This happened already with gay people. Trans people before transitioning have a 40% suicide rate. That’s because many trans people don’t believe they have a future. It’s worse with children and teenagers who are trans. All they know is misery and most mentions of trans people is negative.
Think of how many movies have used the hot woman who turned out to have a dick “that she was really a guy” causing the shocked man to react in wacky ways. It’s a punchline and a frequent one still. It’s a central plot point in Ace Ventura and it haunts me to this day. Imagine growing up, knowing you were different. But that if you ever tried to embrace who you were, that you’d be nothing but a joke? A joke that make people react with disgust if they found out? I posted that clip of Nomi from Sense8 before. Seeing her is why I’m still alive today. I was able to relate to her, something I’d never been able to do before and see that I could have a future where I’m happy. I only watched it because it was sci-fi and made by the creators of The Matrix, who are sisters who both came out as trans later in life. Star Trek can do this. Given that it’s Star Trek and part of our culture at this point, it would mean something too. It could save lives. It’s done so much for so many people and in so many ways, that’s still possible. All by showing a trans crewmember being treated as their gender without question. It’s not what they are, it’s who they are and how they keep the ship flying. Treating us as an alien is the worst way to do that, it probably does more damage. People already see us as aliens, we won’t you to see us as people.
Geordi was blind due to a genetic defect, given what we know now that means along side Geordi actively choosing a visor due to it's higher functionality his parents also actively choose not to fix the issue with genetic alteration while he was still in the womb.
And Worf was a Klingon.
So basically using those criteria to not break setting immersion you are limited to a character who is either A) not human or B) has parents who are massively regressive and or assholes and considers the treatment for the condition to be superior to the cure.
Did you have a point other than being hateful?
Also the Federation bans genetic engineering, that’s how you get a Khan. It’s stupid, but I don’t write the show. Although I’m sure blind like being called defective.
The Federation did use DNA re-sequencing for serious birth defects, but the show never gave an example of said birth defects. I'm going to assume possibly fatal ones.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/DNA_resequencing
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/DNA_resequencing
Why is it whenever the prepostorous idea of trans people being "cured" comes up, people are quick to use Geordi's disability as a comparison? The way I see it (and it's still not a perfect analogy) surely it's more like the journalists "joking" about how surely baldness would be "cured" in the future, to which Roddenberry replied along the lines of "actually, no-one will care".
Obviously be bald and being trans are not the same, but people's attitudes should be. ie: Who cares???
Obviously be bald and being trans are not the same, but people's attitudes should be. ie: Who cares???
That's utter nonsense.
I used Geordi as an example of a character having an issue that they live with, yet aren’t defined by it. He’s never treated as broken or defective and needing to be “cured”. Apparently went over the heads of certain posters. There’s really not any valid comparison on Trek.
But yeah, trans people don’t need to be cured. The biggest problem trans people have is cis people who mistakenly think they know better than us and want us to go away as if we’re the problem. We’re not, they are. They’re holding back the species by clinging to outdated and hateful beliefs. The people that the characters on Star Trek look back on with disgust.
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